Taken to task on craigslist
 

I posted this Raleigh on CL today:
http://maine.craigslist.org/bik/381055081.html
and was treated to the following e-mail:
"I think it's a little irresponsible to claim that dent in your top tube is merely "cosmetic." Any dent on any bicycle tubing leads to structural weakness"
Should I be miffed?
Top

Top,

Don't sweat this nonsense email (which is probably from someone who has only ever owned an alluminum or CF bike)! You did the right thing. Not only did you mention the dent you provided a very clear picture of it. Other than the dent, the bike looks great.

I guess I'd have to see a closeup from the side. Even so, I'm not an engineer so my opinion isn't worth much.

If it were me as a buyer, based on the pictures I'd say the dent is getting close to what I'd classify as a "kink" and while I might ride it, I'd be nervous about my wife riding it. Mostly it would be psychological though. If she hit something hard enough to cause that tube to collapse, she'd have other things to worry about.

You provided a picture of the dent and people can decide for themselves.

That dent definitely looks more than "cosmetic" to me, but on the other hand, you did include a clear picture of the dent, so it doesn't seem to me that you were trying to hide anyone or mislead anyone about the state of the bike.

change cosmetic to small. It dosent look too bad to me but cosmetic means looks only and the tube is structure. Scrapes, scuffs, scratches, paint chips, ect are cosmetic. The email is kind of nit picking. Add a good photo of the cool dutch lugs.

the dent doesn't look bad to me, not nearly kink worthy. Ignore the email, your price on the bike is more than fair considering the dent, I wouldn't hesitate to ride it.

Thanks, Rev., that clears up any ethical issues.

Exhibit 'A' for the accused:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...6/Raleigh3.jpg

In over 7 years on eBay with a 100% feedback record and with several bikes sold in this craigslist market this is the first time my description has ever been questioned.
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I'm not suggesting you have to do this, but I'm curious if you were to hold a straight edge against the bottom of the tube, would it sit flat against it? That would clarify whether it's just a dent or dent with a subtle bend.

The paint didn't really seem damaged but it still looks like it took a pretty good whack from something.

Regardless, I don't think it's going to collapse anytime soon.

I agree that you should just call it a dent and leave at that. Whether it's structural or cosmetic is open to interpretation.

Nice Lot !

I like the fly sitting on the top tube myself.

The dent is on the bigger side, my guess is that the tube did bow a bit, cameras distort things so a screen image is not the best evaluation.

Will it break? Probably not there, and a break will be caused by some other catistrophic damage.

If the prospective buyer does not like it, then they should pass, you were very forthcoming with the condition.

That bike is a death trap!!!

I'll give ya $5 for it...... :D

Just describe the item without any subjective quality analysis. You can get in trouble when you start telling people that the dent doesn't matter, whether it does or not. It is what it is. Describe it that way and let the buyer be the judge. IMHO

The closest I have to a straightedge lays as flat on the bottom of the tube as it does on every other tube I tried it on.
The other side of the lot overlooks a barn with 175 Holsteins in it.

You live with cows, you get flies::p.

Shipping will kill ya:D

What I think I'll do is slightly edit the copy and add the second picture, then sent the OP a link to this thread.
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Wonder if a pair of padded wood blocks (bored out the diameter of that top tube), clamped around it would do anything to improve the cosmetic appearance.

I wouldn't worry one bit about the structural integrity. My '90 Guerciotti has a worse dent then that on the bottom of the downtube, and I've yet to have a complaint out of it. Local framebuilder says it isn't of structural concern either. It's just a visual nuisance...

Take care,

-Kurt

Another good photo would be with you standing on the top tube. If that doesn't make the kink buckle nothing will.

Top506, not trying to hijack, hope you dont mind :) Ive got this dent in my AD and have gotten mixed replys about it, what do you guys think? I just wish I could take better pics :(
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...entdent006.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...entdent005.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...entdent004.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...entdent003.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...entdent002.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...entdent001.jpg

I remember reading that a dented top tube really wasn't that big of deal. I can't find the thread so It's probably not true.

Unrideable. I'll take it of your hands though. You see, I long for the sweet embrace of death-bike.

More than likely! That's what most framebuilders would do.
HARDWOOD blocks, sans padding, is the best way to mimimize dents like y'all have.
Mainly because there are no cable guides in the way.

Just clamp the blocks around the dent, place in vice & tighten a bit. Twist the frame back & forth. Tighten a bit more and twist some more. repeat until the dent is gone. Or mostly gone anyway.

I rode my AD over to Via Bicycles and what do I see? another AD very similiar to mine except that it looks like its been riden through a mountain trail every day since the day it was made! and what do I see on the top tube? a freaking dent just like the one on my bike! So I ask the guy,"was that dent an option on this model AD?" he looks at my bike and says,"Oh wow?! how strange is that!"
Dr.Deltro, Two blocks of wood huh? Hmmm...you wouldnt happen to know anyone in Philly that does that would you?

Bilenky? Or possibly you could do it yourself.

fwiw - a dent like that would put me off if I were looking for a frame to build up or ride. Dings I'm willing to live with. Dents - that's another story.