esterbenz

Folks,

I have a 30 year old Raliegh International, all Campy equiped. Years ago I upgraded to a Super Record rear deraillur so I could run a 28T rear cog (six speed). The front is a 52T x 42T Nuovo Record (144 BDC) crank. That has worked fairly well since. However, now I'm finding I just don't have quite the leverage anymore to get up really steep hills. I am looking for suggestions on how to get a better gear ratio for hills with the least amount of surgery. I haven't paid much attention to all the new technological breakthroughs, so now that I am starting to look again all the new terminology is confusing as to what is compatible and what is not. Example: Engilsh vs. Italian BB threads, "10 speed chainrings" etc. I would prefer to stay Campy if I can. I've seen a few cranks on Ebay that look like they might fit, with a 53T x 39T, but I dont' know if that will make enough difference. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

evwxxx

You need a triple crank in front. TA comes to mind, although others such as Sugino AT's, while maybe not period correct for the International, would work too, and still look "right".

GCRyder

I assume your Raleigh has English BB threads, but you may not need to change the BB if you stay with a double crankset. If you find a double crankset with 110mm BCD, you can use an inside chainring as small as 34T. The combination that's popular right now in "compact" road setups is 50/34. I'm running 48/36 on one of my commuter bikes right now, and it's made a big difference from the 52/40 that it replaced. Lots of Sugino cranks have 110 BCD, and would look relatively "period-correct." Suntour "Signature" and Shimano "RSX" are other doubles that use the 110 pattern. I don't know European cranks in that size, but there may be some.

If that's not enough, you can go to a larger cogset, say something with a 34T bailout gear. To do that, you'll also need a longer-cage rear derailleur. In all likelihood, though, you'll need the longer RD just going to a 34 chainring, since you'd probably be exceeding the takeup limit of the current one.

All of this, of course, calls for some psyche adjustment, too. A classic with a long-cage RD doesn't look as cool as a short cage running over a pinecone, but there some aspects of aging that can't be avoided.

Grand Bois

I wouldn't put anything but a Campagnolo Nuovo Record triple on a Raleigh International. That bike deserves it. It should have had one in the first place. I don't know what they were thinking when they put racing components on a touring frame.

You'll need a longer BB spindle. I'd be tempted to replace the BB with a Phil Wood. They can tell you which one you'll need.

Of course your BB threads are English!

mattface 

I'm gonna disagree with Dirt Drop here. He's right the bike won't LOOK right with anything less than a period Campy triple, but are you gonna look at or ride it. I might be inclined to go with the period correct crank for aesthetic reasons, but as long as you keep the original crank, there is nothing wrong with using any triple you want, or might have lying around. In the end it's just a bike. you're changing the cranks because you want to ride it, and anything that gets you up the kill can't be all bad.

John E

My objection to the NR triple is that vintage NR cranks are prone to fatigue-caused failure, and a NOS set will be extremely difficult and expensive to obtain. Yes, if you can find one, it would be as great on that bike as on any Schwinn Paramount P-15 of the same era. If the 52-36 drop is too much for your front and/or rear derailleur to swallow, strongly consider using a 48, 49, or 50 tooth outer ring. 49-45-36 would be smashing with a 14-17-20-24-28 freewheel:

94.5 86.8 xxxx
77.8 71.5 57.2
66.2 60.8 48.6
55.1 50.6 40.5
xxxx 43.4 34.7


This combination will probably let you keep your existing derailleurs, changing only the crank and BB spindle (or the entire BB, if you want to swap in a modern cartridge unit).

Another period-correct high-end option is the Nervar Star crank. These do not have the second reduced-diameter bolt circle for a third grannie ring, but they make great triples with tall stack bolts and spacers. The 128mm BCD will accommodate a 38T inside ring, for a 38-45-49, 38-46-50, or similar configuration.

Noah Scape

A TA cyclotouriste will be period appropriate and gives you plenty of options. If you want to stay Italian, I have a Gipiemme triple that I'd make you a deal on.

esterbenz

This English/Italian thread thing cofuses me. I stopped in the local Raliegh shop the other day. They said English threads are a more modern occurrance. Anything older would likely be Italian. How do you tell? The only thing written on the BB caps are: "1.370" x 24TPI BREV. INTER. Campagnolo". The length of crank axel appears to be about 113mm +/-. I wasn't so concerned about keeping it perfectly period, although that would be nice, but more so brand consistent. Which from looking around is rather limiting. The current crank appears to be a 144mm BCD. Most of the other Campy cranks I see are 135mm BDC which the smallest ring seems to be 39T. I'm not sure that's enough. The suggestion of just getting a longer a longer axel and going to a triple sounded interesting, I hadn't though of that. I didn't know they ever made a Nuovo Record triple. The only problem of going triple is what other components would have to change.

Thanks.

Grand Bois

Your Raleigh has standard ISO/British theads. British threads are not "a more modern occurrence" on British bikes. Your Bottom bracket is an Italian part made to fit a bike with British threads.

I wouldn't worry about a Nuovo Record crank arm breaking off. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

One of these would solve your problem:
https://www.velo-orange.com/pro5viscr.html
I think they're very ugly.

If it were my bike, I'd try to find a Campy NR triple for it. I'd expect to pay up to $300 for one, but a Raleigh International was always my dream bike. A later Campy crank will look out of place, in my opinion.

PBR Streetgang

"1.370 x 24TPI" is English. Although English threaded BBs are a modern standard, they certainly aren't modern. In the past, every contry had its own standard thread. The Japanese adoption of English threading helped make it a defacto standard. Nevertheless, Campy persists with Italian threading (36 mm X 24 tpi). So, you likely have English threads in your BB shell (frame), but a Campy BB with ISO square taper spindle. The current spindle will only fit cranks that fit ISO, e.g., Campy, Miche, but not Shimano, Sugino, etc.

esterbenz

I pulled the BB spindle out. It is labeled "68-SS-120" and measures about 110mm (maybe 111, hard to tell exactly with out a caliper), and is asymetrical. I never knew Campy made a NR triple. I was searching around and found a photo. Boy, would I like to have one of those, if you could even find one! I also found another web site that mentions something about different tapers on the spindle and certain spindles being compatible only with certain cranksets. I thought all Campy cranks and square taper spindles were compatible. Is this not the case? Anyone know which cranks would be compatible with the existing spindle?

Thanks.

Dr.Deltron

Here's a pic of the new, wider range set-up on an old bike I'm working on.
Deraileur = Campy Rally (2nd generation) $180
Freewheel = Regina Extra 14-34 w/5 cogs $125
Chain = Regina BX $40
(ALL NOS!)

Currently powered by a Super Record double crankset 175mm w42/53 rings.
But when I FIND a NR triple, it's going on this bike!

Grand Bois

The hot setup "back in the day" was a Nuovo Record derailer with a Rally cage. I don't know if it worked any better, but it had better looking pivot bolts.

Kommisar89

I can't remember where I saw it but doesn't TA have 144bcd inner rings to convert to a triple? Or maybe it was only the 130/135.