Fuji 450 SE
 

I have the opportunity to pick up a Fuji 450 SE, a 12 speed small framed bike of valite tubing. It is kind of like a Terry bike, with a 700c rear wheel, and a 24" in the front. I think this bike might fit me well as I am only 5' tall. I have only seen photos so far and don't have answers back yet on components or measurements.

I have two questions. Am I in the ball park on guessing this bike is from the early 80's? Also, if it turns out that the bike does not fit well, does anyone have an idea what the market value of this bike might be? It is certainly unique and in very nice shape. What do you think?

Not sure of the date. T-Mar would probably be the most knowledgeable source. Market value would be whatever people are willing to pay for it, and the market it's being sold in. It should be quad-butted valite, which makes it a high-quality frame. On the other hand, the market for small bikes isn't as big as the market for medium-sized bikes. Then again, I know, from trying to buy a bike for my 5'1" girlfriend, how difficult it can be to find the right bike, so although the market might be small, the demand for a high-quality small-framed bike might be high.

I would guess it could easily sell for $200-$250, with $300-$350 being the very top end (and probably hard to sell at those prices).

Hmmm, a small-framed Fuji... Just what I'm looking for, if it doesn't fit you. ;)

But I think it probably will.

You must be in the KC area.

For the price the guy is asking, I say pick it up even if it doesn't fit you. :)

After seeing that bike, absolutely agreed. That bike is a bargain.

Thank you. That's pretty much what I thought. I am really hoping it fits me!

Ok, assuming I get this bike tomorrow, are there any changes you would suggest?


I'm getting kind of excited.

Honestly, it looks so good, I can't imagine that it would need anything, other than maybe a tune-up and a bearing re-pack. Anything else would depend on what you want to use the bike for-- commuting? Recreation?

I ride for recreation/fitness. I might consider a different type of bars, but will just wait and see. On my 84 Raleigh Marathon mixte (which will be for sale now!!), I was just about ready to consider changing the bars, but had not done so. I'd like to be able to keep my hands on the brake hoods, but I can't work the levers from there. It looks like maybe this bike has suicide levers (why do they call them that?).

This is probably really stupid, so please don't laugh. Is it possible to add a third chain ring so I have some really low gears? I'm getting older, and the hills are sometimes pretty tough for me. I had been looking at newer bikes that are triples, but of course they are mostly too expensive for me.

Better make sure the Fuji fits, first. ;)

Yeah, it does look like that. They're called that because *supposedly* they do not work well, with the user pressing them all the way to the bar and still not getting the brake pads to bite. I think that depends on how well they're set up. I've never had trouble with the suicide levers on my bike. The levers on the Fuji are not aero levers, so you wouldn't be able to ride the hoods unless you change to aero levers. So there's one change you'd want to make. And if you want to shift from there, better make them brifters.

I like triples. :)

The easiest way would be to swap out the crankset for a triple. While you're at it, I would recommend reading up on gearing. Get a copy of Bicycling Magazine's Complete Guide to Upgrading Your Bike by Frank Berto. He explains gearing and how to achieve the gearing you want; as long as you're going to a triple, you might also want to change out the cogs in the back, to achieve the gears you want.

What about clipless pedals?

I guess I never understood the name "suicide levers" because the ones on my Raleigh work very well. So well, in fact, that when my girlfriend tried my bike, she used the suicide levers and went flying right over the handlebars!! The brakes on her old Peugeot are terrible, and she was quite taken by surprise.

Thanks very much for all of your advice. I'm going to get the bike if I can. If it doesn't fit me, maybe it will fit your girlfriend. :) I'll check in tomorrow and let you know how it works out.

Good luck!

That's another good idea for me to consider. Getting into the bike at this price, I just might be able to afford pedals and shoes!

If not, there's always the less expensive option of toe clips.

That model of Fuji went through the mid-80s. Some years, the crankset was already drilled and tapped for a third chainring. A longer BB axle, a chainring and some bolts...

OK, I got it last night. This bike is really, really nice - better than I had expected. I don't think it has been ridden much. It needs to be tuned up and adjusted, but it is in wonderful condition for its age. I don't know how much it weighs, but it is quite a bit lighter than the other two bikes I currently ride.

I've taken it out and ridden it some, and I've got really mixed emotions about it. This frame style with the 24" front wheel fits me wonderfully! I think the key is the shorter top tube - I really feel like I am centered properly on top of the bike in a way I haven't experienced before. The difference riding uphill is enormous. I can easily get out of the saddle and I just feel so much more in control of the bike. The cranks are 165's and this is the first bike I've ridden that had smaller than 170's. I think that makes a difference, too.

On the down side - I don't feel at all comfortable in the drops, though I do think that could change with time (or maybe just a longer stem would help a lot, as the bars are actually a bit lower than the seat). However, I don't think I can ever get used to these friction DT shifters - it's just not gonna' happen, much as I wanted to love everything about this baby!

So, I'm not sure what I will do next. It's not within the realm of possibility for me to do any upgrading on this bike myself, and I don't really know anyone who could do it for me. Local LBS would be way too expensive, I am afraid. I would be happy to find out that I am wrong, but if not, I may be reselling this one and continuing to save my pennies for a bike with newer components. No matter what, I am happy to have had the opportunity to ride this style of frame. I am only 5' tall, and it is very hard to find a bike that feels right. I have not ridden one with 650c wheels both front and rear, but I would also like to try one of those.

Does the bike use suntour cyclone drivetrain parts? A friend of mine has a forest green model just like yours except his rear wheel is 27". Are you sure yours is 700c? Neat ride, if its in good condition I'd suggest not upgrading anything except for fit issues [bars stem seat etc].

Rear is definitely a 700. Mine has Suntour LePree FD and RD. Cyclones are better, right? Maybe just a model year difference, you think? Except the bikes are the same color - did they used to keep the same color from one year to the next?

You're experiencing the advantages of women-specific design. To me, it sounds like it's a good fit for you, so you should definitely NOT sell the bike. I've always had downtube shifters, so it's no big deal for me, but what you should probably do, if you're not comfortable with them, is get some bar-end shifters, or better yet, since you want to ride the hoods, get some brifters. You can probably pick up a set on eBay, if you don't want to buy new, and then have your LBS do the installation. Maybe just save up a month for them...

Or didn't you have a bike you were going to sell? That could help finance some brifters, I think. But you probably also want indexed shifting, from the sound of it. Is that right? If so, you'll need to get brifters and derailleurs and an indexed cassette. Basically, you are talking about replacing your drivetrain. That might be more cheaply done by buying a used bike with the drivetrain you want, taking the drivetrain off, and selling the remaining parts. That sounds like a lot of work, but it's easier to do (or have done) than it is to search high and low for a good fitting bike.

Also, see if you can raise the stem, there should be a mark indicating the maximum you can raise it.

Question: Does anybody here have an indexed drivetrain, with brifters, available for sale to emsara at an affordable price?

Keep in mind that her current crankset has those 165 mm crank arms that she's finding so ideal (and I'll bet she'd really love some 155's)...

This gets me in way over my head. I don't even know what to look for. What kind of drivetrain do I want? Can you give me some examples of what would work on this bike? I'm guessing it would be much harder to find the shorter cranks. If I had to settle for less than the perfect set-up in order to get a good deal, I would rather live with 170mm cranks if I could get a triple chainring.:)

I checked out the stem, and it was already almost at the maximum.

I'm just guessing, based on your previous post. But let's call the drivetrain the crankset, the rear cassette, the derailleurs, and the shifters.

Before we proceed with the drivetrain, let's get one other issue into the mix: Your handlebar. It's too low for your comfort, and you have issues with being low in the drops. A drop bar should be more or less at the same height as the saddle. If your drop bar is positioned correctly, and you are uncomfortable with it at that height, you have two options. First, you can change to a hybrid-type stem. This will get your drop bars up higher. Second, you can change to flat bars, like on a mountain bike, which will give you more of an upright riding position, especially in combination with a hybrid stem. What solution you pursue will depend on how your bike is set up now, and what set-up you want to achieve. For relaxed riding, an upright position will be fine. For racing or long distance riding, you will want drop bars.

OK, now let's go to the drivetrain.

Let's start with the shifters. From your post, it sounds like you have two issues with the current set-up. One issue is that the shifters are friction-- is that right? The alternative, if you don't want friction shifters, would be indexed shifting, meaning you have a precise shift to a specified gear when you shift. In contrast, friction shifting depends upon "feel" to reach the right gear. The trade-off is indexed shifting is more sensitive to slight misadjustments. The second issue is where the shifters are located. It sounds like you don't like to reach for downtube shifters when you shift. You have a few choices here. One choice would be brifters, with the shifter and brake lever combined in one unit. This set-up would allow you to ride your hoods and shift without reaching for anything further away than your brake lever. Brifters would be indexed. You would need drop bars for this set-up. Another choice would be bar end shifters. These fit into the ends of your drop bars. They can be either indexed or friction. A third choice would be grip shift. These shift by twisting your handgrip like you would apply the throttle (gas) on a motorcycle. Gripshifters would be indexed, and would require a flat bar. A fourth option would be mountain type thumb-shifters, for use on a flat bar. These would be indexed.

Now let's go to the derailleurs. Your choice is indexed or non-indexed, although every modern derailleur would be indexed. Furthermore, because of indexing, every component in a drivetrain is designed to work with a "system." In other words, if you buy Shimano derailleurs, you would also buy Shimano shifters, a Shimano cassette, and a Shimano chain. The days of mix and match belong to the past. You will also have to consider whether you're running a double or a triple crankset, and the gear range on your rear cassette. The derailleurs must be rated to handle the gear ranges you're asking them to handle. thus, for a triple crankset, you'd want a derailleur that is designed to shift a triple crankset. For a wide-range cassette (typical on touring bikes, and good for uphill slogs), you'd want a wide-range rear derailleur. For a racing cassette, you don't need a wide-range rear derailleur.

For your crankset, you already know you want a triple. You still have to do three things. First, you have to make sure that you have a bottom bracket that matches your triple crankset. Second, you have to decide what chainrings (how many teeth) you want. This will depend on what gearing you're trying to achieve. Frank Berto's book can help you figure that out. Third, if possible, you will want a crank arm in the 150-165 mm range. Really, 150-155 mm will suit you better. You can get them here. Your choice of crank arm length *may* dictate your chainring selection.

Finally, you will have to choose a rear cassette and chain. Your choice will be dictated by your above choices-- e.g., Shimano indexed-- as well as by the gear combination you want to achieve in conjunction with your crankset. For purposes of simplification, if you want very low gears for getting up hills, you will want a wide-range cassette and a triple crank with a very low third chainring. If you want to race, you will want a rear cassette with narrow range gears and a triple with narrow range chainrings.

It sounds complicated, but it's not. It's just a question of understanding what you want, and what combination of components achieves that. Especially with modern systems, the entire drivetrain functions as a system, so if you decide on Shimano shifters, you would also buy Shimano derailleurs, a Shimano cassette and chain, and a Shimano-compatible crankset.

Does that make sense?

Emsara, does your Raleigh have indexd shifting? Because if it does, and you want indexed shifting on your Fuji, you could always take those parts off your Raleigh...

No, the Raleigh has friction stem shifters and is also only a 12-speed. :(

Blue Order - it does all make sense, but it's still pretty complicated to me! I will never be racing, but I would like to have indexed shifting and I would like to be able to do long distances. However, I also would prefer to have a little bit more of an upright position, not major, but I don't need to be extremely aero.

I think I could like any of these scenarios:

Drop bars (if raised a little higher) with brifters as first choice, but I believe I could do fine with bar ends which should be cheaper, right.

A flat bar or bar with a slight rise to it with grip or thumb shifters, but I would probably want to have some bar ends or aero bars or something for more hand positions.

Maybe some kind of trekking bar with whatever would work on that?

For gearing, I want a wide range cassette with triple chain ring.

It sure seems to me like this would all get too expensive to really do. I can see how it would be much simpler to be able to take the whole system off an existing bike. I have never looked at bikes with an eye toward just using the parts. Wouldn't the bike itself be pricey? Who made a crappy frame and used good components? That's the bike I want to find!!!

A nice bike
 

I have one of those. Bought it for my sister in 1986. It is barely used (less than 100 miles on it), if anyone is interested. let me know.

I'm curious - how much did it cost when it was new?