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Guerciotti and Ten Speed Drive

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Guerciotti and Ten Speed Drive

Old 08-09-07, 04:19 AM
  #1  
Chuckk
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Guerciotti and Ten Speed Drive

I was reading the Guerciotti catalogs on Bulgier's site this morning, and the last page details the finish work that TSD did on their Guerciotti's.
I always knew that they painted the frames, but did they REALLY do all the thread and face work as well?
https://www.bulgier.com/pics/bike/Cat...i84(tsd)/8.jpg
or just (shudder) "as required"?

This bubbled back to the top. Since I know how to link a big photo now, I will.
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Old 08-09-07, 11:56 AM
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Gad. Were these Guerciottis in such bad shape that Captain Mustache had to realign every one of them? Is there more to this story?
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Old 08-09-07, 12:02 PM
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They did a pretty fair job of prepping frames in my experience. If they had the Italian builders do it, they might get banged around in shipment and need realignment and other rework anyway so they left the brazing to the builders and did the prep and painting in the States.

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Old 08-09-07, 12:31 PM
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I think they also did their own painting for the simple reason that the paint on a lot of Italian imports at the time wasn't very good. There was a demand for an Italian-built frame with better paint such as Dupont Imron. TSD found a way to meet that demand
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Old 08-09-07, 12:41 PM
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Paint quality was the story and after owning a few Italian bikes of the period I can concur, but I believe that the biggest reason that they brought them in "raw" was because of tax reasons. If you bring in goods that are going to have work done to them in the US, then you become a secondary manufacturer and the duties and dumping taxes are WAY less. They weren't using master painters, it was marketing.
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Old 08-09-07, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by vjp View Post
Paint quality was the story and after owning a few Italian bikes of the period I can concur, but I believe that the biggest reason that they brought them in "raw" was because of tax reasons. If you bring in goods that are going to have work done to them in the US, then you become a secondary manufacturer and the duties and dumping taxes are WAY less. They weren't using master painters, it was marketing.
That's great info - thanks! Do you know anything about how the TSD logo got onto the frame parts of bikes that came through there, specifically the rear bridge bolt housing? I'm assuming they stamped it on there before painting. One way to tell if your bike was painted by TSD.
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Old 08-09-07, 03:29 PM
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Pantographing would be the general answer but in fact that is engraving when most of the parts from this era are actually cast with the name. Semantics.

The brake bridge would have been installed in Italy with the TSD logo already on the part probably to differentiate it from the rest of the building and as part of TSD's import deal.

I have a 1988 Rossin that has a Decal with the TSD serial # on it but it has TSD stamped (with individual shop die letters) on the left rear dropout. It is chromed on top so I imagine that it is the same deal as your bike, made in Italy, stamped TSD to keep it seperate, and then given a serial # in the US after paint.
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Old 08-09-07, 09:01 PM
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The only two guerciottis I have had (I am in Canada, does that make a difference? i.e. maybe they didn't come from TSD?) both have the Gueciotti logo stamped on the brake bridge.
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Old 08-10-07, 08:02 AM
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Indeed, my 1984 frame (now sold to a BF member) had the TSD logo:



....but my other three (minus the '90 model - I don't believe that was a TSD) are completely sans this logo. One has the same brake bridge as Chuckk's, the '78 is identical to a Benotto 2500 (not sure if Guerc' made for Benotto or vise-versa), and my rusted '83 has the same bridge as the '84 shown, but I believe it is marked with the Guerciotti "G" on both sides.

-Kurt
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Old 08-10-07, 08:38 AM
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painting at ten speed drive

I beleive a woman painted the cool custom paint jobs at ten speed drive but went to colorado to paint because the humidity was so bad in melbourne fl.that it was hard to do a good job.
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Old 08-10-07, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by superhotbug View Post
...but went to colorado to paint because the humidity was so bad in melbourne fl.that it was hard to do a good job.
I call B.S.

The outdoor climate would not affect a climate-controlled booth and storage. If that were so, there wouldn't be master painter Gary Cole of Miami, Florida.

Far as I know, they only had the California and Florida locations.

-Kurt
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Old 08-10-07, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Indeed, my 1984 frame (now sold to a BF member) had the TSD logo:

....but my other three (minus the '90 model - I don't believe that was a TSD) are completely sans this logo. One has the same brake bridge as Chuckk's, the '78 is identical to a Benotto 2500 (not sure if Guerc' made for Benotto or vise-versa), and my rusted '83 has the same bridge as the '84 shown, but I believe it is marked with the Guerciotti "G" on both sides.

-Kurt
Indeed and she is a wonderful machine. I still need to post pics. I never knew that that logo meant TSB but seeing from that brochure what they do before they release a bike I am glad it is. Interestingly I have another NOS Guerciotti frame that is painted blue and the pantographs are not filled in with the gold paind nor was it ever faced/chased. Almost like it was never finished and put on the side and ended up on the shelves. Supposedly it was not resprayed.

...

I thought that the reason they were painted in the US was because of environmental restrictions on a certain chemical in paint in Italy at the time where as in the US there was no restriction. What ever this chemical was it made paint very good for bikes and is the reason why Italian pain jobs are known to chip easily.
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Old 08-10-07, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
Wasn't Colorado Cyclist the big mailorder retailer? I don't think TSD retailed themselves, did they?
I don't ever remember seeing them in Colorado Cyclist - those guys did have Giordana including Eddy Merckx et al.

TSD had a pretty good dealer network system going so the way you see some stores now that are 90% Trek, you'd see dealers with mostly Guerciotti, Ciocc.
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Old 08-10-07, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jfmckenna View Post
Indeed and she is a wonderful machine. I still need to post pics. I never knew that that logo meant TSB but seeing from that brochure what they do before they release a bike I am glad it is. Interestingly I have another NOS Guerciotti frame that is painted blue and the pantographs are not filled in with the gold paind nor was it ever faced/chased. Almost like it was never finished and put on the side and ended up on the shelves. Supposedly it was not resprayed.
I'm pretty sure it is not a TSD paint job though, for if I'm not mistaken, your BB threads hadn't been chased either (no TSD decal either as well) My '77, which was no doubt also painted at the same time as your '84, with an identical paint color, displays the same details.

You must take a photo for me - I'd love to see it. Wish I could finish boring out the steertube of the fork I intend to put on my '77, and have the new longer tube installed...

Take care,

-Kurt
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Old 05-25-08, 12:09 PM
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This is my TSD painted Guerciotti from around 88. Beautiful paint & details.
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Old 05-26-08, 02:02 AM
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I have a Scapin built Greg Lemond that was imported and painted by TSD in the Coors Light motif. No stamp on the bridge as it was a contract built bike for GL. It is a 1988 and has held up very well.
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Old 05-26-08, 06:26 AM
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The TSDI frames were prepped well. I believe they were primed after they were prepped because the frames would arrive with a nice thin layer of primer on the threads (but not the BB faces). I can't remember if we chased them out before assembling them, but since you had to do with with everyone, we probably did. The prep just make it a formality, not something that involves so much friction and material you end up with scrap metal on the floor and a cutting oil soaked frame that's hot to touch.

cdr
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Old 05-26-08, 07:50 AM
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At the two shops I worked in from 1989-1992, we faced & chased every frame that was sold (that wasn't pre-built by the manufacturer), including Guerciottis.
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Old 07-26-20, 07:06 PM
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Did Gary Cole paint for ten speed bikes?

I just purchased a Ciocc that looks like it came through TSD. The paint is beautiful and the seat tube has a decal that says paint by Cole since TSD and Gary Cole were both in Florida, could he have painted for them?
i have pics but cant post them until I post 10 times. Grrrr
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Old 07-26-20, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by monogodo View Post
At the two shops I worked in from 1989-1992, we faced & chased every frame that was sold (that wasn't pre-built by the manufacturer), including Guerciottis.
yeah I think that was pretty common for upper end bikes. I know we did that at the shop I worked in.
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Old 07-26-20, 07:19 PM
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I don't think humidity is that big of a problem, the paint would fall off all the early Treks if it was.

Right after I left Trek, I went to Tallahassee for a bike racing camp. One of their customers has a wheel I built for TSD, I declined to take a job there because I was going back to college. I had no idea they were doing anything frame related, or maybe that hadn't started yet?
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Old 07-26-20, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by goertex View Post
i have pics but cant post them until I post 10 times. Grrrr
You can post in "Introductions" , and welcome others. You can also find a few other threads that interest you and contribute something on topic.

The 10 post rule has been very helpful in cutting down on spam & bot posts.
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Old 07-26-20, 08:01 PM
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Ill post a few more posts the. My mystery pics

Thanks, I understand the limitations
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Old 07-26-20, 08:11 PM
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Gary Cole paint

Somewhat related,
do any of yall have a Gary Cole painted frame? Is it labeled as such?
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Old 07-27-20, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by goertex View Post
I just purchased a Ciocc that looks like it came through TSD. The paint is beautiful and the seat tube has a decal that says paint by Cole since TSD and Gary Cole were both in Florida, could he have painted for them?
i have pics but cant post them until I post 10 times. Grrrr
TSD implemented their painting operation for the 1986 model year and that was the final year for their Ciocc distributing, as Veltec-Boyer took over for the 1987 model year. I don't recall 1986 Ciocc from TSD coming through with the multi-coloured logo. So, if the frame has TSD era traits, it may be a repaint and re-decal. They don't show much but here is the link to goretex's two photos; https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/523548
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