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De Rosa + Masi + Cinelli

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De Rosa + Masi + Cinelli

Old 09-07-07, 08:31 AM
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De Rosa + Masi + Cinelli

HI . i hope you internet gurus can help me with some links to sites that have specs + pictures of vintage De Rosa or Masi or Cinelli bicycles --

thanks for the help .

PS anyone have a nice 54cm or 56cm De rosa thay want to part with frame + fork ?

CHeers T
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Old 09-07-07, 08:54 AM
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https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Italy.html

thats a good one for a start.
Cinelli, Masi and De Rosa in a 54 to 56cm frame? You don't ask for
much do you?
based on vintage expect to spend a lot of money (or be VERY lucky).

Marty
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Old 09-07-07, 09:06 AM
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Old 09-07-07, 09:12 AM
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Best Masi site:

https://bhovey.com/Masi/index.html
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Old 09-07-07, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Italy.html

thats a good one for a start.
Cinelli, Masi and De Rosa in a 54 to 56cm frame? You don't ask for
much do you?
based on vintage expect to spend a lot of money (or be VERY lucky).

Marty
(and welcome to the forums)
i guess that is asking alot , but i know 1 of you gurus out there have 1 you are just itching to sell to a de rosa lover .

Chers People for all the links so far .
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Old 09-07-07, 12:23 PM
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You need to be a bit more specific, Masi has a long history, I have more than a few, each is different.
Cinelli also has a long time of operation, does it have to be while Cino was still around?
DeRosa likewise has built for a long time, and become quite big, even makes mod stuff...

All are respected names, why did you select them?
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Old 09-07-07, 12:25 PM
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I do know where a 1973 Italian built Masi Prestige is available if you
are truely interested.

Marty
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Old 09-07-07, 12:29 PM
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An Italian Prestige?, it was made by the kid, dad thought so much of him he sold out the name...
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Old 09-07-07, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
An Italian Prestige?, it was made by the kid, dad thought so much of him he sold out the name...
Dad only sold him out in the U.S., though ...
No such animal as a '73 Prestige - would have to be just a bit later bike.
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Old 09-07-07, 01:27 PM
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my apologies to the list, er group. . .Its a GC italian 1973,
the seller is LOOKING for a Prestige (and my dutch ain't great).

Marty
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Old 09-07-07, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Dad only sold him out in the U.S., though ...
No such animal as a '73 Prestige - would have to be just a bit later bike.
Actually 1973 is a pivotal year, Falerio had made the deal prior (the latest is could have been signed was May of 1973 as referenced in USA trademark filings, my guess as things were less urgent back then, stuff was on "The Boat" by May) and while Falerio was in the USA assisting the Carlsbad workshop set up. In 1973 there were Gran Criteriums being built in Milan, for quite some time till possibly as late as 1978, possibly beyond. There is a reasonable chance that the Prestige's were at least prototyped if not made in 1973. "Milan" Gran Criteruims from 1975-76 start to look more like Prestiges than the Gran Criteruims of say 1973 -74.

A Prestige with a 1973 date would be rare.

A Gran Criteruim from 1973 from either workshop is rare and desired.
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Old 09-07-07, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Actually 1973 is a pivotal year, Falerio had made the deal prior (the latest is could have been signed was May of 1973 as referenced in USA trademark filings, my guess as things were less urgent back then, stuff was on "The Boat" by May) and while Falerio was in the USA assisting the Carlsbad workshop set up. In 1973 there were Gran Criteriums being built in Milan, for quite some time till possibly as late as 1978, possibly beyond. There is a reasonable chance that the Prestige's were at least prototyped if not made in 1973. "Milan" Gran Criteruims from 1975-76 start to look more like Prestiges than the Gran Criteruims of say 1973 -74.

A Prestige with a 1973 date would be rare.

A Gran Criteruim from 1973 from either workshop is rare and desired.
It would be surprising to me to discover a '73 Prestige because the earliest ones I am aware of date from early 1975. The Prestiges were distinguished by their use of investment cast lugs made by Microfusione. It would be surprising to me to find those lugs in use over a year prior to their earliest known appearance to date. To me, the chances are a bit less than reasonable, but I've learned not to be too shocked anymore.
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Old 09-07-07, 02:20 PM
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Here are nice photos of a '72 GC

https://sports.webshots.com/album/560251496MdVcPi

Mike,
Austin.
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Old 09-07-07, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
It would be surprising to me to discover a '73 Prestige because the earliest ones I am aware of date from early 1975. The Prestiges were distinguished by their use of investment cast lugs made by Microfusione. It would be surprising to me to find those lugs in use over a year prior to their earliest known appearance to date. To me, the chances are a bit less than reasonable, but I've learned not to be too shocked anymore.
Do not assume that Prestiges started with invenstment cast lugs.

The cat was out of the bag regarding investment cast lugs in 1975.
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Old 09-07-07, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Do not assume that Prestiges started with invenstment cast lugs.

The cat was out of the bag regarding investment cast lugs in 1975.
Good point. I suppose there could be an early Dubois-lugged Prestige or two out there that predate '75, though I don't think we've established that yet. My bad.
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Old 09-07-07, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by soderbiker View Post
pictures of vintage De Rosa





https://picasaweb.google.com/DiabloSc...14205770491746

https://picasaweb.google.com/DiabloSc...90089104417570
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Old 09-08-07, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
You need to be a bit more specific, Masi has a long history, I have more than a few, each is different.
Cinelli also has a long time of operation, does it have to be while Cino was still around?
DeRosa likewise has built for a long time, and become quite big, even makes mod stuff...

All are respected names, why did you select them?
I like old steel that has flavor , history , a durability . and designed to last .. not like cheap bikes from taiwan .. sorry if that offends anyone .


i have ridden a few newer de rosas and i just fell in love..
Cinelli for the detail .
masi for the rarity ..

im a bike *** , I admit it !!

T
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Old 09-08-07, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by soderbiker View Post
I like old steel that has flavor , history , a durability . and designed to last .. not like cheap bikes from taiwan .. sorry if that offends anyone . i have ridden a few newer de rosas and i just fell in love..
Cinelli for the detail .
masi for the rarity .. T
Almost all steel bikes last, if rust is prevented.

Cinelli for detail? well, the headbadges are nice, the workmanship does vary, but not effecting being desirable, although some more wished for than others. In the USA the Model B frames are rare, more so than the Super Corsas, I would still place them as fewer here than Masi's.

More Masi's appear to have been used hard and modified/repainted than Super Corsas. During the span of the 60's to 70's, Masi went under much more evolution than Cinelli did, a bit in the geometry area, much more so in the visual.
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Old 09-08-07, 09:55 PM
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Here are my bikes, DeRosa and 2 old GC Masi's and a few others.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11647810@N02/sets/
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Old 09-09-07, 01:41 AM
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@asshauler

Nice collection , thanks for the link ..

Cheers T
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Old 09-09-07, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by asshauler View Post
Here are my bikes, DeRosa and 2 old GC Masi's and a few others.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11647810@N02/sets/
I have a couple of questions about the early black GC. How did you arrive at the '69 date? I suppose you don't have the original fork? Also, what is the bottom bracket marking? It looks like M 49.1 or something like that. Very interesting early GC.
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Old 09-09-07, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
I have a couple of questions about the early black GC. How did you arrive at the '69 date? I suppose you don't have the original fork? Also, what is the bottom bracket marking? It looks like M 49.1 or something like that. Very interesting early GC.
1969 is the earliest for a Gran Criteruim allegedly, the bottom bracket cutouts and the flat seat stay caps are in line with an early Gran Criterium. No fork is shown but if it is around most likely has a build date. M.R.'s race history is reasonably well documented, maybe there are even some images of her winning on it, and or some paperwork.

There is one notorious collector who has an early Gran Criteruim with fluted seat stay caps and an M cutout on the Bottom bracket shell....sure buddy.

Some true custom Masi frames, have a size with a .5 after the frame size stamp, maybe just marketing but Falerio must have been happy with her race record, a reasonable conjecture, a custom bike.

This frame and the other should not be repainted in my view. The black frame is beat, but should be in the USA Cycling museum, the other one is in reasonable shape for its age, looks like it could be my size too...

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Old 09-09-07, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
1969 is the earliest for a Gran Criteruim allegedly, the bottom bracket cutouts and the flat seat stay caps are in line with an early Gran Criterium. No fork is shown but if it is around most likely has a build date. M.R.'s race history is reasonably well documented, maybe there are even some images of her winning on it, and or some paperwork.

There is one notorious collector who has an early Gran Criteruim with fluted seat stay caps and an M cutout on the Bottom bracket shell....sure buddy.

Many true custom Masi frames, have a size with a .5 after the frame size stamp, maybe just marketing but Falerio must have been happy with here race record, a reasonable conjecture, a custom bike.

This frame and the other should not be repainted in my view. The black frame is beat, but should be in the USA Cycling museum, the other one is in reasonable shape for its age, looks like it could be my size too...
The earliest GC I could find definitively in the database is '70, which is why I asked about the fork - excepting of course the one owned by the notorious collector. I don't think there's one fork-dated to '69, but it would be cool if there is one out there. And of course you're right about the details being right for an early GC. I have a Special dated to '69 that has the classic 3-slot Special BB cutout - and also has the half sizing, which is why I asked about the BB stamp on the black one - doesn't look like a .5 to me, but of course it could be the angle of the photo. And the size stamp on mine is preceded by "S.F." rather than an "M".
And I sure agree about not repainting that frame - that would be a shame.
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Old 09-09-07, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
The earliest GC I could find definitively in the database is '70, which is why I asked about the fork - excepting of course the one owned by the notorious collector. I don't think there's one fork-dated to '69, but it would be cool if there is one out there. And of course you're right about the details being right for an early GC. I have a Special dated to '69 that has the classic 3-slot Special BB cutout - and also has the half sizing, which is why I asked about the BB stamp on the black one - doesn't look like a .5 to me, but of course it could be the angle of the photo. And the size stamp on mine is preceded by "S.F." rather than an "M".
And I sure agree about not repainting that frame - that would be a shame.
"I make it so special for you, we make it to fit to the last millimeter..." Of course this was originally in Italian.

Flat stay cap Gran Criteruims are few indeed. On this black mircoframe, the interesting thing to me is the brazed on pump peg under the seat lug, a detail I saw on a few that were from '71 or '72, way back then asking about fork dates just did not happen, but those bikes had a later transfer set.
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Old 09-09-07, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
"I make it so special for you, we make it to fit to the last millimeter..." Of course this was originally in Italian.

Flat stay cap Gran Criteruims are few indeed. On this black mircoframe, the interesting thing to me is the brazed on pump peg under the seat lug, a detail I saw on a few that were from '71 or '72, way back then asking about fork dates just did not happen, but those bikes had a later transfer set.
There are supposedly some with stamp-dated forks as early as 5/70 - surely those would have had the first-generation GC decal set? Or what am I missing? I'm not trying to be difficult, just curious (and very analitically minded). I'm learning a lot. Those early GC's a indeed few.
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