miamijim

The gaspipe thread got me thinking....what exactly is it? I checked bike weights and the lightest of all HLE models is the PH10LE at 24.5 lbs.

I know exactly what HLE is made of. Lets hear what you guys think its made of then I'll tell you in a day or so.

Jim

RK1963

manganese steel

bbattle

Similar to Reynolds 501 perhaps.

Luis Ocana 1973

I've got a 1988 Peugeot Versailles with an HLE frame and its weight is 27lbs. HLE is entry level steel- manganese alloy.

tjspiel

Gaspipe that was cut to length and then submerged under the Siene in special casks for 10 years so that it was aged properly before being assembled into a complete frame.

Italian bike manufacturer's merely had their house tubing blessed by the Pope.

bigwoo

Tasteless crap, just like all things French
Not as good as American steel either.....

Ok,Ok, it was actually a fairly smart use of average material because it was strong and readily available...HLE tubing started as manganese ore at the French mines, which was then processed into suitable metallic alloy form for the bicycle framesets....

All of this despite the fact that America and Japan were far ahead of France in metallurgical research and development in the 1960's and 70's...

Some of the Francophiles may be able to correct me, but I thought that Peugeot's steel was purchased from Usinor as far back as the 1950's, one of the biggest and most powerful French steel companies.

miamijim

Aged for 10 years in the Siene or blessed by the Pope. Tough choices....

miamijim

Manganese, aluminum, titanium and a few other metals I cant remember. I'll post a scanned description later.

unworthy1

501 is chrome-moly, not manganese-moly like 531...Peugeot used plenty of 531 as well as nearly all of Reynold's output of 501 for a spell (some have said 501 was developed at Peugeot's request, maybe true/maybe myth), but they also used plenty of French-sourced steel tubing as well. Huge tubing appetite.

tolfan

dont know just want the daily email

tjspiel

I guess my question is how much heavier is HLE vs. Reynolds 531 from a material perspective? If there was such a thing as butted HLE frame, would it be much, if at all heavier? With Reynolds, are you paying for the name as much as the quality of the material?

I can't remember if it was T-Mar or somebody else who used seat post diameter to measure the quality of the frame. I believe the logic was that if the outside diameter of the seat tube is consistent, a larger inside diameter means thinner wall, which = higher quality.

My bike has a small seat post diameter, but the entire seatpost gets thinner (both inside and outside diameter) at the top where the seat post joins the top tube and stays.

T-Mar

Niobium and of course, carbon.

T-Mar

There is no appreciative difference in the specific gravity, and therefore the weight, of any steel. The difference in frame weight results from stronger alloys that permit thinner tubes.

Most people get really excited over frame weight, but the majority of extra weight in an entry level bicycle comes from the heavier components.

I have never seen any reference to a butted HLE frame.

Undubtedly, there is some cost to the Reynolds name, but it's probably not as much as most people think. In the case of 531 a lot of the cost is in the process to produce a seamless tube, which is theoretically stronger, but has little practical benefit over the seamed tubesets introduced in the mid-1980s.

As a rule of thumb, smaller diameter seatposts equate to thicker tubes and weaker steels. However, depending of the era, French bicycles used 0.6mm smaller outer diameter seat tubes and you have to compensate. Also, while most manufacturers used single butted seat tubes, some manufacturers. such as Tange, used double butted seat tubes. Like most rules, there are exceptions.

tjspiel

Ahh, - that's good info. So instead of measuring the seatpost, why not just measure the thickness of the wall of the seat tube?

Kommisar89

I was thinking about that - then I posted on the frame builders forum asking how you could tell the difference between Columbus SL/SP tubes and was told that the outside diameter is the same and the seat tube diameter would be bored to 27.2 on either so that wouldn't help for that kind of tubing at least. It was suggested that you could use some kind of small micrometer to measure the inside of the tubing through the bottom bracket. I don't really care that much - I was just curious

And I have no idea what HLE is made out of but I sure wish I hadn't tossed that old Peugeot

miamijim

Here it is. I did a comaprison of weights. Peugeot readily states that an HLE frmae is .7lbs lighter than a conventional frame (carbolite 103)

The heaviest 501 bike I could find was 24.1 while the lightest HLE I could find was 24.5. Comparing to 103 tubing the lightest 103 I could find was 26.6 while the heaviest HLE I could find was 25.9.

To sum it up an HLE bike can be built with similar components as a 501 bike with .4 lbs disadvantage while an HLE bike would be atleast .6lbs than a similar 103 bike.

tjspiel

Great Information ! I shall now refer to HLE as "Peugeot's vaunted HLE". ;-)

Just curious, - the heaviest 501 bike you could find... Was is butted or straight gauge?

Kommisar89

&^%#&&#&^%#&

And I tossed that HLE frame bike

miamijim

It was '3-tube 501' model with no mention of straight gauge or butted. 24.1lbs.

bbattle

There's a French patio furniture maker that uses HLE steel. Tafus is their name.

tjspiel

Patio Furniture? You're destroying the mystique...

T-Mar

Measuring the seat post is the easiest method. In fact you generally, don't have to measure it, as most have the diameter stamped on them. To measure just the thickness of just the tube you would have to compensate for the for the seat lug and paint. The other method is to measure just the inside diameter of the tube and calculate the wall thickness using the theoretical outside diamter of the tube, but you will find that most tubes are not perfectly round.

Yes, reaming or honing a SP seat tube to 27.2mm is a very commmon practice. It has the benefit of having to stock only one size of seat post. The rule of thumb for SP versus SL is that most builders use SP on frames 58cm and larger. Again there are exceptions, depending the frame builder's personal preference, the intended use and espically if it was a custom frame where the rider's style, weight and strength is known.

East Hill

Couldn't you have made this multiple choice ?

It's a very informative thread.

East Hill

USAZorro

Resurrecting from the dead here, I picked up one of these from the LBS yesterday for nada. They told medthe foame was bent, and I grabbed it primarily for the components. For certain the handlebars are toast (bloody shame too as they were really nice with internal routing), but as I stripped it down, I stared good and hard at the frame, and did some measurements, and I don't see any signs that there's anything wrong with it.

I'm torn between cleaning it up and building it back up, and just scavenging the parts and chucking the frame (which I'd really prefer not to do if it's ok). It's a really nice frame if one can look past it not having lugs.

gaz1812

I have a circa 1980 Peugeot touring cycle in need of some serious restoration.
Is a frame made out of Reynolds 103 tubing worth investung the time and money on or is it a piece of scrap?