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Japanese built Raleigh International: Raleisonic?

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Japanese built Raleigh International: Raleisonic?

Old 10-16-07, 12:44 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Thanks, fender1. No immediate plans to sell the frameset - I'll build it this winter and ride it next season. Aside from the missing chrome and eyelets, those are different rear drops. Hopefully those are the ones prone to failure!
No, not that you intend to sell it but if it turns out that you don't care for the ride, you could sell it and end up ok.
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Old 10-16-07, 03:50 PM
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P.S.: I'd suggest that you try the 1982 Bicycling magazines, not the '83s.

-Kurt
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Old 10-16-07, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
P.S.: I'd suggest that you try the 1982 Bicycling magazines, not the '83s.

-Kurt
T-Mar posted a digital image of the ad on the other thread (a slight breach of etiquette to post two threads, but I thought I'd get the attention of others who might not have read this thread).

PM'd you with an address I found for Mark Bulgier.
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Old 10-16-07, 06:46 PM
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Well, after seeing the '83 catalog, the Michael's Cyclery advertisement, and reviewing the Retro Raleighs site, I've come to my own personal conclusion:

#1: There were one-year 1982 models called the "Competition" and "International MKII."

#2: The Prestige model of 1983 is of no relation, and, to be correct, was called the Prestige G.S. - it is questionable whether a Prestige model ever existed for 1982.

#3: Junkyardbike has a 1982 "International MKII"

#4: fender1 had a 1982 "Competition 531" - at least, that's what Michael's called it.

#5: The information perpetrated by the Retro Raleighs site, as usual, is not worth a (insert raspberry here).

-Kurt
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Old 04-30-08, 09:11 PM
  #30  
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Prestige or International

Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
There we go - that's the "Competition" model as termed by Michael's. Same as the red frames, save for different geometry and no chrome.

JunkYardBike - can you find out who provided that copy of the '83 catalog? I would like to post it on The Headbadge, if possible.

-Kurt
So I'm curious how this story ended (if it did). Has a Raleigh catalog containing the '82 ('83?) Prestige (International?) ever been located? I just stumbled upon this post, as I continue to search for information about my Raleigh. I would post photos, but it's identical to JunkYardBike's Raleigh (minus the Made in Japan decal) and its serial number is N2H0560. So what's the most recent thinking about the model name? Prestige or International? 1982 or 1983?
https://farm1.static.flickr.com/79/24...b535c545_o.jpg
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Old 04-30-08, 09:18 PM
  #31  
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Nice catch, been searching for a similar frame myself. Let me know how she ride when you get it all put together will ya.
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Old 04-30-08, 09:28 PM
  #32  
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Here's mine, as it stands today:



I concluded it was a frameset from Michael's, which was marketed as International MKII. BF member Charles Wahl was kind enough to send me a scan of their flyer. I can email it to you if you like.
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Old 04-30-08, 11:44 PM
  #33  
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1983 Raleigh USA Prestige

Last Saturday I purchased what I believe to be the mysterious 1983 RaleighUSA "Prestige Grand Sport" at a thrift store. Sorry no images as both my digital cameras died in the past few months.

It seems to match the specs and pictures in the '83 catalog. While I can't make out the model name in Mark Bulgier's PDF's of the catalog photos, my bike identifies the model with the same script style letters in the same location on the top tube --the decal actually inverts the order of the name to "Grand Sport Prestige." (The catalog text first calls the bike the "Prestige GS" then tells us in the first sentence of copy that "the Grand Sport is ideal for fast touring or serious competition." Apparently, they were struggling with what to call this short-lived Huffy/Raleigh USA model.)

My "Prestige" looks much like Kurt's Pearl and Chrome "Competition" and the one that just sold e-bay. But instead of a chromed rear triangle, it's covered with a classy charcoal gray except for the chromed head-tube. The multiple Raleigh stickers on down-tube and seat tube match the the location and graphics of the "Competition," except they are in yellow and white letters. It has the same Raleigh 555SL double butted tubing decal and the small print "Manufactured in Japan" sticker at the bottom of the seat tube.

The flaking Raleigh stickers on the main tubes and the crumbling Aero Gran Compe gum brake hoods are only things that I've found wrong with the bike. The Suntour Superbe drive train looks pristine, and the paint and chromed fork are all shiny under some garage grime. Serial number and pictures to come after I get it cleaned up and I get a hold of a camera.

Anybody know where I can find some replacement decals?

Half-price sale on bikes at Goodwill last Saturday, so it was $50 out the door. I'm happy.
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Old 05-01-08, 07:27 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Here's mine, as it stands today:



I concluded it was a frameset from Michael's, which was marketed as International MKII. BF member Charles Wahl was kind enough to send me a scan of their flyer. I can email it to you if you like.
WOW! Looks fantastic! How is the ride? Whippy in a good way?
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Old 05-01-08, 07:39 AM
  #35  
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Very pretty bike.

As far as anecdotal evidence about the quality of Japanese Raleighs, I have in my possession a Japanese-built Raleigh USA Grand Prix; my wife has a Carlton-made Super Course mixte from the late '70s. The brazing on the Carlton bike, in comparison to the Japanese frame, looks like it was done by a third-grader -- very sloppy.
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Old 05-01-08, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by skyblue View Post
Last Saturday I purchased what I believe to be the mysterious 1983 RaleighUSA "Prestige Grand Sport" at a thrift store. Sorry no images as both my digital cameras died in the past few months.
Not so mysterious. Turns out that road model production was already in Raleigh USA's hands by '83, but it took the Bulgier catalog to set that straight. Prestige, as you note, was applied to the top-end model produced during the Raleigh USA era from '83 on.

-Kurt
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Old 05-01-08, 07:57 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by dougb View Post
So I'm curious how this story ended (if it did). Has a Raleigh catalog containing the '82 ('83?) Prestige (International?) ever been located?....So what's the most recent thinking about the model name? Prestige or International? 1982 or 1983?
I usually try not to be short with folks here on the forum, but did you read the last post in the list here before it was bumped? Post #29 dated 10-16-07?

I'll re-post the list with some additional annotations.

#1: There were one-year 1982 models called the "Competition" and "International MKII." These are the blue/gold & red/chrome models, respectively, mentioned and photographed in this thread.

#2: The Prestige model of 1983 is of no relation, and, to be correct, was called the Prestige G.S. EDIT: Catalog available here: https://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Cat...83-Catalog.pdf

#3: Junkyardbike has a 1982 "International MKII"

#4: fender1 had a 1982 "Competition 531" - at least, that's what Michael's called it. More accurately, the 1982 "Competition" model. Where in hell did the Michael's advertisement disappear to?

#5: With all due respect to the late, great Sheldon Brown, the information perpetrated by the Retro Raleighs site, as most always, is not worth a *Bronx cheer*.
[/QUOTE]

I'll add something redundant here just to make sure the point is clear:

#6: There is no evidence to ever indicate a 1982 Prestige model.

-Kurt
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Old 05-01-08, 09:08 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
WOW! Looks fantastic! How is the ride? Whippy in a good way?
Rides like a Cadillac! There's definitely some flex, but it's lively - not dead and or heavy feeling at all. It's got low gearing, in any event, and I'm not a masher on hills, so it fulfills its purpose perfectly.
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Old 05-01-08, 04:39 PM
  #39  
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Decals Made to Order

Originally Posted by skyblue View Post
Last Saturday I purchased what I believe to be the mysterious 1983 RaleighUSA "Prestige Grand Sport" at a thrift store. Sorry no images as both my digital cameras died in the past few months.

It seems to match the specs and pictures in the '83 catalog. While I can't make out the model name in Mark Bulgier's PDF's of the catalog photos, my bike identifies the model with the same script style letters in the same location on the top tube --the decal actually inverts the order of the name to "Grand Sport Prestige." (The catalog text first calls the bike the "Prestige GS" then tells us in the first sentence of copy that "the Grand Sport is ideal for fast touring or serious competition." Apparently, they were struggling with what to call this short-lived Huffy/Raleigh USA model.)

My "Prestige" looks much like Kurt's Pearl and Chrome "Competition" and the one that just sold e-bay. But instead of a chromed rear triangle, it's covered with a classy charcoal gray except for the chromed head-tube. The multiple Raleigh stickers on down-tube and seat tube match the the location and graphics of the "Competition," except they are in yellow and white letters. It has the same Raleigh 555SL double butted tubing decal and the small print "Manufactured in Japan" sticker at the bottom of the seat tube.

The flaking Raleigh stickers on the main tubes and the crumbling Aero Gran Compe gum brake hoods are only things that I've found wrong with the bike. The Suntour Superbe drive train looks pristine, and the paint and chromed fork are all shiny under some garage grime. Serial number and pictures to come after I get it cleaned up and I get a hold of a camera.

Anybody know where I can find some replacement decals?

Half-price sale on bikes at Goodwill last Saturday, so it was $50 out the door. I'm happy.
I can help you with those decals, send me a PM and we'll go from there. JR.
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Old 05-01-08, 08:41 PM
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If anyone would like a PDF of the Michael's Cyclery circular (from spring 1985, I think), just email me. Has some model descriptions, geometry and price lists.
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Old 09-09-09, 06:16 PM
  #41  
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Thanks for this thread - I just bought one of these bikes (the International MKII), and this thread was the only way I had to identify it! For what it's worth, I love it; a very nice smooth ride.
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Old 09-09-09, 08:21 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by palmerina View Post
Thanks for this thread - I just bought one of these bikes (the International MKII), and this thread was the only way I had to identify it! For what it's worth, I love it; a very nice smooth ride.
Nice catch. Please post some pics.
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Old 10-14-11, 06:05 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Yesterday I purchased what I believe to be a 1983 Raleigh International frameset at the Trexlertown, PA swap meet. This frame features the 'sport touring' geometry I've been seeking, with relaxed seat and head tubes, and 43 cm chainstays (c-c). It's constructed of full [EDIT: tubes are single, not double butted, as I originally posted] butted Reynolds 531, with fully chromed fork and chainstays. It's designed for 27" rims.
I'm curious how you know it's designed for 27" wheels. I looked at the Michael's Cyclery brochure and didn't see a wheel size cited.
The brochure shows the fork crown-to-dropout dimension is 369mm. Does that length indicate sizing for 27" wheels?
It would be nice to know for certain. I have the save frame, and need a replacement fork. The original was mangled in an accident.
Thanks.
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Old 10-14-11, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dougb View Post
I'm curious how you know it's designed for 27" wheels. I looked at the Michael's Cyclery brochure and didn't see a wheel size cited.
The brochure shows the fork crown-to-dropout dimension is 369mm. Does that length indicate sizing for 27" wheels?
It would be nice to know for certain. I have the save frame, and need a replacement fork. The original was mangled in an accident.
Thanks.
I haven't owned the frame for over 2 years, so can't take any measurements for you. However, in the photo above it has 700c rims and 47-57mm reach calipers. You can see on the front how far down the slot the brake pads are positioned.

I may have had other information that led me to make the claim, but if so I can't remember it.
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Old 10-14-11, 01:27 PM
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Raleigh's are confusing. Why is that? And which are the good ones and the not so good ones? ARRRRGGGHHH!
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Old 10-14-11, 01:34 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by dougb
I'm curious how you know it's designed for 27" wheels. I looked at the Michael's Cyclery brochure and didn't see a wheel size cited.
The brochure shows the fork crown-to-dropout dimension is 369mm. Does that length indicate sizing for 27" wheels?
It would be nice to know for certain. I have the save frame, and need a replacement fork. The original was mangled in an accident.
Thanks.



I haven't owned the frame for over 2 years, so can't take any measurements for you. However, in the photo above it has 700c rims and 47-57mm reach calipers. You can see on the front how far down the slot the brake pads are positioned.
I have an 81 Japanese made Compition GS, with Campy GS calipers and 700's the pads are nearly bottomed out in the calipers and there is a bit of extra room between the rear forks having the tire set back a bit from its designed positon.
I've had the frame built up for 2 years now and find it smooth and agile, definatley a keeper.
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Old 10-14-11, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Very nice build.
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Old 09-09-19, 11:50 AM
  #48  
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I realize this is a very old thread, but I just wanted to say thanks for it! I would have never been able to identify my MKII without it. I was cleaning out my basement and I found this gem that I had completely forgotten about. My dad bought it for me when I was around 13, so the frame is the small size, I believe 20". I've had it since 1982. and my dad told me it was an International (didn't mention the MKII part). It has a full Campy Nuovo Record groupset, so the parts are probably worth more than the bike, but the frame is in really good shape, only a few scratches. I may keep it for sentimental value, but it's too small for me to ride.

Is there a market for something like this?
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Old 08-17-21, 01:48 PM
  #49  
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Need Help

Hi,
I found a Raleigh Competition G.S. which trying to find a date.
The owner was told that it was an 1981 but I'm having issues with it due to age of components.
The parts are mainly Campagnolo Gran Sport (except for brakes and front hub due to wheel replacement).
Interesting is the brake levers, never seen Weinmann like that before.
Reynolds 531 tubing but Suntour Superbe drop-outs.
Bars & stem is SR but Raleigh etched in on front left side of bars.
Okay, I did see the 'N' may of been by Panasonic
Serial: N106269
My issue is that they used early 1970's parts for a '81 frame.


weird brake lever

Bottom bracket with serial #
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Old 08-17-21, 05:40 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by guelphite View Post
Hi,
I found a Raleigh Competition G.S. which trying to find a date.
The owner was told that it was an 1981 but I'm having issues with it due to age of components.
The parts are mainly Campagnolo Gran Sport (except for brakes and front hub due to wheel replacement).
Interesting is the brake levers, never seen Weinmann like that before.
Reynolds 531 tubing but Suntour Superbe drop-outs.
Bars & stem is SR but Raleigh etched in on front left side of bars.
Okay, I did see the 'N' may of been by Panasonic
Serial: N106269
My issue is that they used early 1970's parts for a '81 frame.
The componets may not be as old as you think. The (Nuovo) Gran Sport was introduced for the 1975 model year and was still available in 1981. In fact, it was spec'd on that year's Competition GS. There are even a couple of changes that happened circa 1978-1979 to help tell if it's eralier or later (Nuovo) Gran Sport. 1978 saw CPSC changes, which included the introduction of a lip on the outside edge of the front of the front derailleur cage. The 1979 model year saw the introduction of the 5 pin crankset, though I have seen some 1979+ Competitition GS with the 3 pin crankset.

The serial number is not quite what I would expect for a Japanese built Raleigh of the period. The 3rd character should be a letter, as opposed to the number zero. However, this character is not complete and could be a partially formed or obscured "G". Either way, it could still be reverse engineered to 1981.

During the 1980s, Raleigh's Japanese source used the same serial number format as Nottingham, who had taken over the mass production mass production 531 frames after the Worksop divison closed circa 1980. So, while the dropouts suggest Japnese manufacturer, England cannot be ruled out. Raleigh Canada could have used either or both sources. The headbadge should say Nottingham or have "////////" marks along the bottom fror a Japanese manufactured frame.
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