robsa

Hi guys

I was hoping you fellas may be able to give me some good advice regarding my racer. It's really, really old! 1982 in fact. It's a Viscount Aero something or other. It's actually a really nice racer - obviously not compared to these swanky ones I see these days but even so. It has shimano dura-ace kit all over it. I think this stuff is pretty good to be honest - its beautifully made.

However, I love these new sti levers (? is that right?) that have the dual brake/gear change control and thought I would ask you guys - should I take the dura ace stuff off my viscount and try and fit some sti levers - if they would fit... the handlebars arent round; they are oval! and how the hell do they come off - the allan screw is inside the bloody stem.

Should I bother or should I just junk the bike and buy a fancy new one.... is it worth anything? As I said, some of the parts looks really nice but I suppose they are all outdated now. Ptchaw! Gear change levers on the downtube?! how antiquated! And my old mavic alloy rims - I presume its all carbon fibre these days.

Maybe a collector would want it?

Or are you going to say "Nooo! Keep it, it's a classic!" (Yeah, right!) I tried searching for viscount on the net but the only bike I could find was some old jalopy from the 70's with plasticine front forks! Same company though.... not very inspiring. Apparently my one is made from the space shuttle....

So what do I do? Sell it and get a cool new bike or put a few new bits on this one?

thanks for any advice



Robsa

USAZorro

What you do, really, is up to you. The Viscount line was infamous for having non-standard parts and sizes, so you're possibly going to run into some more issues with that bike than you would with many other makers. I had one, and had some issues with the bottom bracket and crankset, and decided to pass it on to someone who was a little more resourceful than me. I've got nothing against retrofitting an older bike with newer bits, but yours doesn't sound like it would be an easy transition.

melville

Are you in the USA? Viscounts pretty much vanished after 1978 or so here. It almost sounds like you have possibly some sort of Japanese produced item there, with the full DA Aero kit, including stem. If it's a DA stem, after you get the dustcap off, turn your allen key so the long side is going in to the stem, apply some leverage to the short side (pipe cheater, we used a piece of seatstay) and IIRC it's contrary to the righty tighty lefty loosey scheme of things.

I say Japanese produced because Yamaha took over distribution here for Viscount and after the fork debacle may have gone with a Japanese manufacturer.

What sort of BB is on it? Threaded or pressed? How about brakes? If they're short reach sidepulls (or DA Parapull), you may have a shot at putting modern stuff on it.

Pix Pix Pix! Post some!

Later

Mel

robsa

[quote=melville;5471829]Are you in the USA? Viscounts pretty much vanished after 1978 or so here. It almost sounds like you have possibly some sort of Japanese produced item there, with the full DA Aero kit, including stem. If it's a DA stem, after you get the dustcap off, turn your allen key so the long side is going in to the stem, apply some leverage to the short side (pipe cheater, we used a piece of seatstay) and IIRC it's contrary to the righty tighty lefty loosey scheme of things.

I say Japanese produced because Yamaha took over distribution here for Viscount and after the fork debacle may have gone with a Japanese manufacturer.

What sort of BB is on it? Threaded or pressed? How about brakes? If they're short reach sidepulls (or DA Parapull), you may have a shot at putting modern stuff on it.

Pix Pix Pix! Post some!

Hi there


Thanks guys for the advice. Erm, sorry, what is a BB?! The bike was, I always thought, english. Obviosly shimano are jap though. I live in England. The brakes are centre-pull - is that DA parapull?! The brake levers have the cables going through the backs and through the bars! I thought this was very swanky when I were a kid. I cant take photos yet as it is not with me but will be from sunday. I will take pix of it then if you like! I also think it probably has non-standard part - I recall the bearings around the forks/headset for some reason. The frame is all reynolds tubing as I recall (its in my faythers shed which is why I cant photo it at the mo, but I am visiting him on the weekend)


Robsa

Oops OK BB = bottom bracket. I am an idiot. Again pretty sure its shimano but will check sunday - 'cotterless thread' is about as much as I can tell you. I think ALL the kit on itr is 'dura ace'? does that sound right?

PS thanks for the advice about top bracket!

melville

DuraAce Parapul brakes do not use a straddle cable, but instead have a cam that bears against both brake arms. If you have conventional centerpulls things do not look good for modern upgrades.

Good luck

Mel

zonatandem

Suggest you keep it as an 'oddball' sort of collectible. Yes, they had issues with fork, bottom bracket and non-standard stuff.

unworthy1

but he says this is a 1982, and fitted with all Dura-Ace, so it can't have the "death-fork-pressed-bearing" idiosyncrocies of the early Viscounts or Lamberts. And if it's truly made from 531 I'm sure I've never seen one like it, all the Viscounts I knew were straight gauge "aerospace" tubing...pics are required.

big chainring 

In the late 70's an English Viscount racing team was touring around the States. Their bikes looked like Viscounts but with steel forks and upgraded components, maybe Dura-Ace. Maybe its one of these team bikes??? But I think this was 1976 which would be 6 years prior to your getting the bike. Was it new in 1982?

robsa

Hi guys

Regarding the brakes, they are pretty wee and do not use cabling other than to pull at the top. The brake shoes IIRC are screwed in using tiny allen screws!

The bike is 1982 or 1983 I think. It has some sort of 'championship 1982' sticker between the thumb shifters. It is all reynolds tubing I think - again, not seen her for over 2 years and my old brain forgets. I am pretty certain though all the kit on it is dura ace. I have never seen another one like it before or since and whenever I talk to people about it they only know the old 'chocolate fork' 70s variety. This is very different - I think my brother (who gave it to me) paid about £500 for it - in 1982! It was brand new then.

I promise you the first thing I do when I get ot my fathers in Devon is take a bunch of snaps of it for y'all as I bet you think I am a fantasist... hmn, maybe I am! I even still have the 'aerodynamic' shimano water bottle for it somewhere.

The rims are Mavic but the hubs are again shimano. I used to even have a fat shimano manual for it but probably gone now.

-Rob

(edit) Yes, brakes are very similar to these ones:

https://www.cyclistclub.org.hk/main.f...AceAXBrake.jpg

Bikedued

To be brutally honest, you don't sound like you're into vintage bikes? Why keep it? And for god's sake
don't "junk" it. Pass it on to someone who will want it for what it is, a vintage bike. 1982 is fairly new in the field of vintage bikes, lol.,,,,BD

robsa

No need to be brutal! It wasn't vintage when I first owned it - it was just one of my everyday knocking about bikes.

OK I am quite happy to pass it on but I doubt it is worth much. And as it has all this Dura-ace kit on it perhaps if I just serviced it it would be ok. I mean, its only got 12 speeds I think but racers these days start about what? $600? No way would I get that for it - its 25 years old. And I may be buying a new bike with a poorer groupset. Well, who knows? Maybe there is somebody out there who loves viscounts and may want to swap it for a modern racer. Are there people out there into Viscounts?

T-Mar

1982-1983 is the correct era for Dura-Ace AX and the descriptions are a match. This is a very under rated group in my opinion and it is collectible, especially the brake calipers. I had a NOS group which I had to sell a few years ago, due to financial reasons. The purchaser bought the whole group, just to get the brakes. To this day, I regret having to sell it.

You can fit STI levers onto the existing handlebar bar as it is round on the drops and bends. If you can find a set of the 7 speed Sora STI levers, all you should have to replace is the rear derailleur. 8. 9 or 10 speed STI will require the STI levers, new rear derailleur, new freehub with cassette (or complete resar wheel) and possibly new chainrings and new chain.

Follow Melville's advice for loosening the stem's handlebar clamp. I don't recall it being a reverse thread, but he may be correct.

Change it to STI, if you feel it will increase your enjoyment and result in the bicycle being ridden more, but don't get of the old components. Should you decide to sell, it will be far more valuable with a complete, original Dura-Ace AX group.

T-Mar

Are you sure it is 12 speed? Dura-Ace AX was 14 speed. Maybe it is only partial Dura-Ace AX? 600AX was 12 speed.

I've seen the calipers alone sell for $500 US. It may be worth far more than you think, depending on the condition.

robsa

Wow, thanks Tmar - really useful info! It could easily be 7 speed at the back, although I thought it was 6. It actually came with 2 sets of gears - one was close ratio I think. Sounds like the best thing for me would be to buy a set of sora sti's and a new rear wheel maybe. Will my derailleur really be useless? Shame, as it is really nice. Is it a thinner chain or something then or is it just the movement of the derailleur will not be enough to go across if I have more gears at the back.

The whole bike is in very good condition as is all the groupset. You will see when I put up pics sunday that for a 25 year old bike it is in nice condition. Its done maybe 2000 miles in total, ever.

I can see it would make sense to keep the bits I take off for if I ever sold it. And to think it nearly went to the dump! My old man was about to junk it - luckily he happened to just mention 'my old bike' and I told him not to.

Rob

PS Bike shop up the road just happens by coincidnce to have a set of 7 and 2 sora sti levers. They are mis-matched. One has 'sora' and something computer compatible - the other just says 'shimano 7 speed' they are brand new, boxed with all cables etc and he wants $130 for the lot. Is this ok?

MKahrl

Keep in mind that from the point of view of many of us here on the C & V forum there are no huge advantages to STI. The fact that you already learned to shift on this bike negates STI's primary advantage: shifting for the hopelessly uncoordinated or the unteachable. The number of cogs in the back is also unimportant. More important is having a combination of cogs and chainwheels that adequately serves your high and low gear needs.

There aren't many new bikes in bike shops that are equal to your bike for less than $1500. Assuming the bike fits you, you should consider shining it up and investing in nice tires, saddle and handlebar tape. It's a good bike by today's standards.

robsa

Ha ha ha! Point taken! I am just a sucker for technology. Maybe you're right. new tape may be all it needs really. The saddle is nice too. Suede and still quite good condition. Yes, Maybe I will just service her and put on new tape. The other thing is the brakes used to have rubber covers over them but they went years ago. As a result they get uncomfy after a while hill climbing etc. Could I get covers for them?

T-Mar

The AX derailleurs had an early from on indexing which Shimano called NPM (New Postive Mechanism). The indexing was built into the derailleur itself, as opposed the shifters per SIS and STI. Your rear derailleur may work with 7 speed STI, but only if the cable travel per shift is the is the same as the levers. It is worth a try, but don't be surprised if they are incompatible.

The chain is not an issue if you stay with 7 speeds, even if you convert to STI, but it will be if you convert to more cogs. You may be able to get by with the current chain on 8 cogs, but it will be an issue with 9 or 10. The narrower spacing of the cogs requires a narrower chain. The current chain would be noisy or tend to skate on the cogs.

Finding actual AX lever hoods may be hard and/or expensive. I'm assuming you're in England and I really don't know what is avialable over there and the pricing, but your LBS should be able to set you up with something compatible. In a pinch I've gotten creative with cork handlebar tape. It's not the best looking, but it's quite comfortable.

There's nothing wrong with liking new technology. I've got bicycles with 4 cog, friction shifting derailleur systems, all the way on to 10 cog, indexed, ErgoPower (Campagnolo's version of STI). While I like them all, there are definitely some advantages to a combined brake/shift lever. One of the big supplemental advantages, should you decide on a new rear wheel, is the ability to have the ramped, Hyperglide cogs, which shift even under heavy load. You can be honking up a hill at low RPM and just have to flick your right hand to get easier gear. But don't make your decisions based on the opinons of myself or others. Borrow a bicycle with STI, try it out and decide for yourself if it worth the expense.

robsa

Thanks T-Mar - more good information. That is the thing that is a pain with shifters on the frame - trying to change gears smoothly uphill under pressure. I dont fancy my chances finding blue rubber hoods to replace on my brakes.

These are what I have - but I am not paying all that just to get the hoods!

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SHIMANO-Dura-A...QQcmdZViewItem

Rob

T-Mar

If the seller wasn't located in Hungary, I'm sure they go for a lot more. Still, there's some time to go and there are usually last minute snipers waiting around.

bigbossman 

That may be an opinion many here share, but it is not necessarily a reality. STI shifting offers many improvements and advantages, even for those that have used and mastered friction shifting in years gone by.

"shifting for the hopelessly uncoordinated or the unteachable."