3Rensho information wanted
08-20-03, 09:53 AM
#1
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3Rensho information wanted
I recently bought an older 3Rensho. The interesting thing about this bike is that it has a complete Shimano Dura Ace AX groupset from the early '80's. The AX stem, seatpost and crankset are pantographed with "3Rensho", so I believe that this bike is in as purchased condition with the original equipment. I know the AX group was only made in '82 and '83 and was Shimano's first attempt at 'aero' components.
I've seen the information on the Yellow Jersey web-site and I am looking for any other sources of info about 3Rensho. Particularly if there is a chart showing serial number/year of manufacture data.
Also any anecdotal info would be appreciated too. This is a cool bike and the builder, who is highly regarded, has been paralyzed from an automobile accident, so no more 3Rensho's will be made.
I've seen the information on the Yellow Jersey web-site and I am looking for any other sources of info about 3Rensho. Particularly if there is a chart showing serial number/year of manufacture data.
Also any anecdotal info would be appreciated too. This is a cool bike and the builder, who is highly regarded, has been paralyzed from an automobile accident, so no more 3Rensho's will be made.
08-20-03, 12:47 PM
#2
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Dave,
Nice ride, I think DNOVO on Phorum just bought a 3Rensho
(well not just but recently).
you might want to do a search of Bikelist.org there has been alot said about 3rensho
recently on Classic Rendezvous list.
Did you send e-mail to Andrew Muzi at Yellow Jersey? He has
been very helpful in the past.
I really like 3Rensho, Yoshi Konno built wonderful bikes.
Post some pics when you get a chance.
Hows the Kirk doing? I really liked the look of it completed.
Marty
Nice ride, I think DNOVO on Phorum just bought a 3Rensho
(well not just but recently).
you might want to do a search of Bikelist.org there has been alot said about 3rensho
recently on Classic Rendezvous list.
Did you send e-mail to Andrew Muzi at Yellow Jersey? He has
been very helpful in the past.
I really like 3Rensho, Yoshi Konno built wonderful bikes.
Post some pics when you get a chance.
Hows the Kirk doing? I really liked the look of it completed.
Marty
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08-20-03, 01:22 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
The Kirk's great! Did a three-day, two-hundred mile ride over three mountain passes on it. The fit's perfect and the bike did everything I asked Dave Kirk to build in a bike for me. I posted a ride report over at the Serotta Forum.
The 3Rensho, unfortunately, is not my size. I wear a 61 and the 3Rensho is a 56. I bought it because it is a complete, original period bike with the AX componentry. It's been used, it's not a garage queen. And with Konno paralyzed and no longer building because of his severe injuries, I thought that I had to have one.
Dave
The 3Rensho, unfortunately, is not my size. I wear a 61 and the 3Rensho is a 56. I bought it because it is a complete, original period bike with the AX componentry. It's been used, it's not a garage queen. And with Konno paralyzed and no longer building because of his severe injuries, I thought that I had to have one.
Dave
Last edited by Davet; 08-20-03 at 06:34 PM.
08-20-03, 02:11 PM
#4
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Does your 3Rensho have the offset fork crown?
For others that might not know, 3Rensho is pronounced San Rensho and means "3 Victories" in Japanese. It refers to a keirin racer winning 3 times in one series of races, which was/is apparently a great accomplishment. Yoshi Konno's frame was one that was used to accomplish this feat, hence the name 3Rensho.
For others that might not know, 3Rensho is pronounced San Rensho and means "3 Victories" in Japanese. It refers to a keirin racer winning 3 times in one series of races, which was/is apparently a great accomplishment. Yoshi Konno's frame was one that was used to accomplish this feat, hence the name 3Rensho.
08-20-03, 02:57 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by don d.
Does your 3Rensho have the offset fork crown?
For others that might not know, 3Rensho is pronounced San Rensho and means "3 Victories" in Japanese. It refers to a keirin racer winning 3 times in one series of races, which was/is apparently a great accomplishment. Yoshi Konno's frame was one that was used to accomplish this feat, hence the name 3Rensho.
Does your 3Rensho have the offset fork crown?
For others that might not know, 3Rensho is pronounced San Rensho and means "3 Victories" in Japanese. It refers to a keirin racer winning 3 times in one series of races, which was/is apparently a great accomplishment. Yoshi Konno's frame was one that was used to accomplish this feat, hence the name 3Rensho.
I'm not sure what an 'offset' crown is, but mine has a sloping crown. It has no flats.
08-20-03, 05:11 PM
#6
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If you look at the fork from the side, the fork tubes on a normal fork come into the crown on the same center line as the steerer tube. Yoshi Konno/3Rensho were the innovators(to the best of my knowledge) of an offset investment cast fork crown design that moved the fork blades into a plane in front of the center line of the steerer tube. This allowed the forks to be made with a shorter fork rake while achieving the same trail configuration as normal crown/longer fork rake design. In theory, this was done to produce a stiffer overall ride. This is different from and was before Ernesto was producing fork crowns with the rake cast into them so he could use straight fork blades. Even then, his weren't offset like 3Rensho's. All 3Rensho frames don't have this crown, but this is probably one of the most distinguishing characteristics of a 3Rensho frame.
Last edited by don d.; 08-20-03 at 05:26 PM.
08-20-03, 05:23 PM
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Some info from the Yellow Jersey site: www.yellowjersey.org/konno3.html
08-20-03, 05:41 PM
#8
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
I understand the marque is still alive though the original builder, Konno, has indeed suffered a paralyzing accident. Yellowbike has had some for sale for large money and some for alot less and I guess that reflects Konno build or not.
I understand he learned the art taking apart Cinellis left in Japan after the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. Have never seen one in the "flesh" but everything I've seen/heard indicates a build quality as good as anywhere in the world. I've thought for awhile that a Rensho built with a SunTour Superbe Pro group would be about as good a friction shifting setup as could be gotten with all due respect to Euro marques and components.
Btw. I ride a 56.
I understand he learned the art taking apart Cinellis left in Japan after the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. Have never seen one in the "flesh" but everything I've seen/heard indicates a build quality as good as anywhere in the world. I've thought for awhile that a Rensho built with a SunTour Superbe Pro group would be about as good a friction shifting setup as could be gotten with all due respect to Euro marques and components.
Btw. I ride a 56.
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08-20-03, 06:51 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by don d.
If you look at the fork from the side, the fork tubes on a normal fork come into the crown on the same center line as the steerer tube. Yoshi Konno/3Rensho were the innovators(to the best of my knowledge) of an offset investment cast fork crown design that moved the fork blades into a plane in front of the center line of the steerer tube. This allowed the forks to be made with a shorter fork rake while achieving the same trail configuration as normal crown/longer fork rake design. In theory, this was done to produce a stiffer overall ride. This is different from and was before Ernesto was producing fork crowns with the rake cast into them so he could use straight fork blades. Even then, his weren't offset like 3Rensho's. All 3Rensho frames don't have this crown, but this is probably one of the most distinguishing characteristics of a 3Rensho frame.
If you look at the fork from the side, the fork tubes on a normal fork come into the crown on the same center line as the steerer tube. Yoshi Konno/3Rensho were the innovators(to the best of my knowledge) of an offset investment cast fork crown design that moved the fork blades into a plane in front of the center line of the steerer tube. This allowed the forks to be made with a shorter fork rake while achieving the same trail configuration as normal crown/longer fork rake design. In theory, this was done to produce a stiffer overall ride. This is different from and was before Ernesto was producing fork crowns with the rake cast into them so he could use straight fork blades. Even then, his weren't offset like 3Rensho's. All 3Rensho frames don't have this crown, but this is probably one of the most distinguishing characteristics of a 3Rensho frame.
I just got an e-mail from A. Muzi at the Yellow Jersey (they are/were importers for 3Rensho bikes) that mine is an '82, and was a high-end factory bike.
The more I look at the Dura Ace AX components, the more interesting they become. Exquisitely detailed, very smooth and 'aero', not all all like what I've seen of early Japanese gear. It's got a six-speed cogset. The down-tube shifters are mounted on the backside of the down-tube to get them out of the airstream. The brakes are somewhat like the Campy Delta brakes, only they work and stop the bike. https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Japan/Shimano.htm
I'm going to clean up the bike, it's been sitting in a barn (literally) for about ten years. Then I have to figure out what the heck I'm going to do with it.
08-20-03, 07:33 PM
#11
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
Don:
They don't have a smilie for drooling.
(Yes, I am
)
Did you see that other thread about a Moto GR? Marty tried to help me out there, but I don't think it worked.
They don't have a smilie for drooling.
(Yes, I am
)Did you see that other thread about a Moto GR? Marty tried to help me out there, but I don't think it worked.
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08-20-03, 08:08 PM
#12
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Originally posted by Davet
The more I look at the Dura Ace AX components, the more interesting they become. Exquisitely detailed, very smooth and 'aero', not all all like what I've seen of early Japanese gear. It's got a six-speed cogset. The down-tube shifters are mounted on the backside of the down-tube to get them out of the airstream. The brakes are somewhat like the Campy Delta brakes, only they work and stop the bike. https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Japan/Shimano.htm
The more I look at the Dura Ace AX components, the more interesting they become. Exquisitely detailed, very smooth and 'aero', not all all like what I've seen of early Japanese gear. It's got a six-speed cogset. The down-tube shifters are mounted on the backside of the down-tube to get them out of the airstream. The brakes are somewhat like the Campy Delta brakes, only they work and stop the bike. https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Japan/Shimano.htm
08-20-03, 08:09 PM
#13
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Originally posted by Walter
Don:
They don't have a smilie for drooling.
(Yes, I am )
Did you see that other thread about a Moto GR? Marty tried to help me out there, but I don't think it worked.
Don:
They don't have a smilie for drooling.
(Yes, I am
)Did you see that other thread about a Moto GR? Marty tried to help me out there, but I don't think it worked.
08-21-03, 09:20 AM
#14
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If I stand on tiptoes, and shim my cleats I can ride a 56.
A guy I knew back in early 80's had a 3Rensho, previously had
a Basso and Colnogo Mexico before that. He thought the 3R was
a much nicer bike (for racing, not everyday use).
I've also heard that 3Rensho were still active, with Kono as
mentor (not sure of correct term here) but was not building.
Dave, I read your ride report on Phorum and I've noted that
a few other folks are now onboard and buying Kirks.
DNOVO did, and I'm sure he got a 3Rensho (maybe that was
on CR list?). I'll check on that.
Since the 56 doesn't fit, you could keep the AX stuff for
posterity (collectability) and send the frame to walter, he
would take good care of it.
Anyone seen a Nagasawa? supposed to be as nice as the
3Rensho.
Marty
A guy I knew back in early 80's had a 3Rensho, previously had
a Basso and Colnogo Mexico before that. He thought the 3R was
a much nicer bike (for racing, not everyday use).
I've also heard that 3Rensho were still active, with Kono as
mentor (not sure of correct term here) but was not building.
Dave, I read your ride report on Phorum and I've noted that
a few other folks are now onboard and buying Kirks.
DNOVO did, and I'm sure he got a 3Rensho (maybe that was
on CR list?). I'll check on that.
Since the 56 doesn't fit, you could keep the AX stuff for
posterity (collectability) and send the frame to walter, he
would take good care of it.
Anyone seen a Nagasawa? supposed to be as nice as the
3Rensho.
Marty
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08-21-03, 09:45 AM
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Marty: Dnovo has commissioned a 2nd Kirk! I think he's trying to keep up with dbrk. Dnovo actually got a Nagasawa last year.
I think the 3Rensho is too good to part out, all the correct components are there and working. It deserves something better than that. Everything I've been able to find out about the builder seems to indicate he's darn near a national treasure in Japan. I've heard nothing about 3Rensho continued production. In any case, without Yoshi Konno actually doing the building, it isn't a 3Rensho in the truest sense.
I think what I'm going to do with this bike is consider it a "rescue" and either send it to CycleArt in California for a total restoration, or try to sell/trade it for something interesting that I can ride.
I think the 3Rensho is too good to part out, all the correct components are there and working. It deserves something better than that. Everything I've been able to find out about the builder seems to indicate he's darn near a national treasure in Japan. I've heard nothing about 3Rensho continued production. In any case, without Yoshi Konno actually doing the building, it isn't a 3Rensho in the truest sense.
I think what I'm going to do with this bike is consider it a "rescue" and either send it to CycleArt in California for a total restoration, or try to sell/trade it for something interesting that I can ride.
08-21-03, 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Davet
I think what I'm going to do with this bike is consider it a "rescue" and either send it to CycleArt in California for a total restoration, or try to sell/trade it for something interesting that I can ride.
I think what I'm going to do with this bike is consider it a "rescue" and either send it to CycleArt in California for a total restoration, or try to sell/trade it for something interesting that I can ride.
I agree its too good to part out, most of my comment was
a tongue in cheek, forgot the smilies
I can't keep up with what DBRK or DNOVO have when it comes
to bikes, I'm betting between them they have more than
most LBS's stock. . .
Marty
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08-21-03, 10:54 AM
#17
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Marty: If you want, I'll send you some pics of the AX components, they're kinda cool. Not at all like the 'normal' early Japanese gear. Sort of early aero. If you want, send me a pm with your e-mail addy and I'll shoot you the pics.
Dave
Dave
08-21-03, 11:22 AM
#18
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A full pictorial on the AX grouppo can be found at :
www.classicrendezvous.com Go to the Japan section, then the Shimano section.
www.classicrendezvous.com Go to the Japan section, then the Shimano section.
Last edited by don d.; 08-21-03 at 11:35 AM.
08-22-03, 09:55 PM
#19
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Man, I've got too much on my plate! Just bought a couple of NOS late '80's, very early '90's Guerciotti frames today. One is steel, the other is bonded aluminum by Alan. Both in my size!
So, I'm going to offer the 'rescued' 3Rensho for sale. The bike is ridable, though very carefully, the tubie tires are quite old and in poor shape. All the 1982 (date codes indicate 1981 manuf.) Dura Ace AX components are original to the bike and in good working and cosmetic condition, except for the rubber brake hoods. The wheel rims are not original, but the hubs are. The frame should be re-decaled and painted to restore it to it's original beauty.
E-mail me for detailed pics in the "as-found" condition.
So, I'm going to offer the 'rescued' 3Rensho for sale. The bike is ridable, though very carefully, the tubie tires are quite old and in poor shape. All the 1982 (date codes indicate 1981 manuf.) Dura Ace AX components are original to the bike and in good working and cosmetic condition, except for the rubber brake hoods. The wheel rims are not original, but the hubs are. The frame should be re-decaled and painted to restore it to it's original beauty.
E-mail me for detailed pics in the "as-found" condition.
Last edited by Davet; 08-22-03 at 10:03 PM.
11-05-03, 05:50 PM
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3Rensho Suntour SuperbePro
Wow I just stumbled on you r thread about 3Renshos. It's nice to find some other people out there who are into these bikes. I just bought a 3Rensho track frame circa 1986. It has Suntour stamped on the dropouts so I'm attempting to build it up with vintage Suntour Superbe Pro parts. So far I found a nice wheelset with SSP hubs, Araya rims and aero sopkes. The big problem I'm having is with the cranks. I'm looking for SSP track cranks in 165mm. So far I have not had any luck. I've talked to Rivendell, Yellow Jersey, and a few others. Does anyone have a suggestion of where I should look to find SSP components?
Pete
NYC
Pete
NYC
11-06-03, 08:50 AM
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Pete,
Check out Classic Rendezvous Classified they have a good list of vintage equiptment.
Also you might post WTB on their mailing list.
Other places are Rec.Bicycles.marketplace all sorts
of fun stuff shows up there.
Hope this helps,
Marty
Check out Classic Rendezvous Classified they have a good list of vintage equiptment.
Also you might post WTB on their mailing list.
Other places are Rec.Bicycles.marketplace all sorts
of fun stuff shows up there.
Hope this helps,
Marty
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07-19-08, 04:04 PM
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Hello all, I posted something similar in the Road forum but thought I'd post here just in case.
I have a 3Rensho serial #A948-600, with a (to me) mysterious stamp on the BB shell that reads <EO> Medalist. What does that mean/stand for? Aero crown fork, mix of 600/105 components. Any info including tubing, year etc. would be greatly appreciated.
I have a 3Rensho serial #A948-600, with a (to me) mysterious stamp on the BB shell that reads <EO> Medalist. What does that mean/stand for? Aero crown fork, mix of 600/105 components. Any info including tubing, year etc. would be greatly appreciated.
07-19-08, 05:31 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by faaipdeoiad
Hello all, I posted something similar in the Road forum but thought I'd post here just in case.
I have a 3Rensho serial #A948-600, with a (to me) mysterious stamp on the BB shell that reads <EO> Medalist. What does that mean/stand for? Aero crown fork, mix of 600/105 components. Any info including tubing, year etc. would be greatly appreciated.
I have a 3Rensho serial #A948-600, with a (to me) mysterious stamp on the BB shell that reads <EO> Medalist. What does that mean/stand for? Aero crown fork, mix of 600/105 components. Any info including tubing, year etc. would be greatly appreciated.
Mods...maybe do a favor and break this out to a new thread? The original is a bit dated.
A948 would be your serial and 600 (60cm) is your frame size.
