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Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos

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Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos

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Old 02-05-19, 01:39 PM
  #7151  
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
I have become sufficiently jealous and inspired by this thread. The CL search begins!

A couple questions: Does anyone have experience buying a lone frameset and then a complete groupset? Of course it depends on the frame, but for vintage roadies what do you look for in a modern groupset?
Yes many of the bikes in this thread started out as a frameset, including my 1974 Raleigh International and my ~1996 Lemond Ti. I've also rebuilt my 1982 McLean with modern-ish components, and I'm doing the same with my 1971 Raleigh Super Course. I look for components that are likely to work on the frame. Then I make "discoveries" and adapt. I think having 8 or 9 speeds in the back is wholly adequate, and I'm not sure more help any, though it's now easier to get 10- and 11-speed groups, and there's nothing wrong with them. In fact, with the added speeds, they have improved performance and maybe reliability. Time will tell. So price is a criterion for me, too. There is a C&V for-sale section, and you have to be a paying member to participate there. Often people offer things for very nice prices, and it's how I got a lot of the stuff I'm using. Even nicer than price is that the folks there are pretty trustworthy and won't misrepresent what they're selling.

Also, I see a lot of threadless headsets in this thread. What is the general era that these start to pop up? I've never had one on a road bike but I think I'd like to for modern stem and bar combinations.
Threadless headsets require threadless forks. The steerer tubes are longer than threaded tubes, and you can't add length. Also the steerers are typically 1-1/8" in diameter, so you can't convert. I don't remember when they became common.
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Old 02-05-19, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by botty kayer View Post
My Brian Rourke has had an update, with some 'new' wheels, Campagnolo Chorus 10 speed hubs, Sapim spokes laced to Mavic Open Pro rims, and Vittoria Corsa G+ tyres.
Another BF'er with a Rourke. Sweet.
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Old 02-07-19, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Threadless headsets require threadless forks. The steerer tubes are longer than threaded tubes, and you can't add length. Also the steerers are typically 1-1/8" in diameter, so you can't convert. I don't remember when they became common.
Another recent option, that I've used 3 times now (once on an Ironman, and on the two bikes below). It is the Innicycle headset/stem combination part.

You can keep your C&V 1" threaded fork, and it replaces both the headset and the steerer tube, and can vary in length. It has a 1 1/8" steerer to fit modern stems, and comes with spacers, as well. Looks good, retains the original fork.

It comes in both silver and black, and is sold by joejack951 here on BF.

This (1999) is with the OEM 1" threaded fork, and I didn't cut the steerer because the fit is dead on this way.


This (1984) is with a replacement (Performance) 1" threaded fork from a BF member. Due to the fit of the bike, I cut the steerer to create the fit I wanted.
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Old 02-09-19, 01:22 PM
  #7154  
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I put together this Black Lightning last night and took it for a ride this morning. Dura Ace 7800 shifters, 1x10 with the original Suntour Superbe Pro crank and an eBay Special chainring. Absolutely my favorite road frame so far. I did some crit practice loops in a parking lot - dang this thing can hold a line around some tight corners. It'll eventually get repainted, this thing definitely deserves some love.

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Old 02-10-19, 10:49 AM
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Looks fast sitting still.
Originally Posted by tiredhands View Post
I put together this Black Lightning last night and took it for a ride this morning. Dura Ace 7800 shifters, 1x10 with the original Suntour Superbe Pro crank and an eBay Special chainring. Absolutely my favorite road frame so far. I did some crit practice loops in a parking lot - dang this thing can hold a line around some tight corners. It'll eventually get repainted, this thing definitely deserves some love.

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Old 02-11-19, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by antmaster5000 View Post
I have become sufficiently jealous and inspired by this thread. The CL search begins!

A couple questions: Does anyone have experience buying a lone frameset and then a complete groupset? Of course it depends on the frame, but for vintage roadies what do you look for in a modern groupset? Also, I see a lot of threadless headsets in this thread. What is the general era that these start to pop up? I've never had one on a road bike but I think I'd like to for modern stem and bar combinations.
For me I start with the frame. I have a 1951 Holdsworth Monsoon which I rescued from being damaged and painted with Hammerite. It now has new decals, is lug lined, and I am gradually sourcing original parts, because it deserves the effort. It now sits next to me in my office because I am a couple of parts shy. Its been a year.

At the same time I took a frame I wanted to be good to ride, and so I selected modern components, and the only problem is I had to change the bottom bracket because I was using a triple instead of a single and I needed a longer shaft for the clearance.

The only frames I have struggled with are vintage French, because everything is different. Different threads, different diameters, and difficult to get spares.
This means that instead of replacing old parts such as a worn headset, I end up renovating and rechroming parts - very expensive.




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Old 02-11-19, 10:50 AM
  #7157  
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Witcomb



Here is my 1991 Witcomb which was recently handed down to me by my father. It still has the same 7-speed setup when it was built, so I just replaced the shifters with Microshift and a Deore LX NOS front derailleur (had campy record brake levers, 105 front mech, and 600 indexed shifters). Long term I'm thinking of going 8-speed in the back with 10-speed Campy brifters, but this will work for now. Oh, and I threw on my fav quill stem, the Nitto Dynamic II.
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Old 02-11-19, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GregU View Post


Here is my 1991 Witcomb which was recently handed down to me by my father. It still has the same 7-speed setup when it was built, so I just replaced the shifters with Microshift and a Deore LX NOS front derailleur (had campy record brake levers, 105 front mech, and 600 indexed shifters). Long term I'm thinking of going 8-speed in the back with 10-speed Campy brifters, but this will work for now. Oh, and I threw on my fav quill stem, the Nitto Dynamic II.
Purdy!
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Old 02-17-19, 04:33 PM
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1981 Bertoni Superlight - latest iteration

Thanks to BF members Snibop (frame and panto’d bits) and Brockd15, I gave myself hours of entertainment putting this together. I originally built it up with period correct Campy parts, but somehow it never got ridden much. So when I impulsively purchased the SRAM Force 10 groupset I thought of the Bertoni, which looks super in black. I built the wheels with Mavic Open Pros and All City Go Devil hubs, spread the rear triangle to fit and voila! I swapped the 53/39 crankset for a 50/34 compact one to better deal with our local terrain and it works well. (Although the 53/39 SRAM crankset is an absolute color match to the frame, I go for comfort every time.) This really is too nice a frame to languish in the back of the bike line!










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Old 02-18-19, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Honusms View Post
Thanks to BF members Snibop (frame and pantoíd bits) and Brockd15, I gave myself hours of entertainment putting this together. I originally built it up with period correct Campy parts, but somehow it never got ridden much. So when I impulsively purchased the SRAM Force 10 groupset I thought of the Bertoni, which looks super in black. I built the wheels with Mavic Open Pros and All City Go Devil hubs, spread the rear triangle to fit and voila! I swapped the 53/39 crankset for a 50/34 compact one to better deal with our local terrain and it works well. (Although the 53/39 SRAM crankset is an absolute color match to the frame, I go for comfort every time.) This really is too nice a frame to languish in the back of the bike line!


.....................and that Bertoni turned out very nice, good work.








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Old 02-18-19, 11:40 AM
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@Honusms I had meant to write, back when you had a picture of you with the huge Crescent wrench (getting a bottom bracket cup off), that I couldn't wait to see your Bertoni completed because I thought that the SRAM groupset was going to look stellar on that frame. And it does! Beautiful work!!
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Old 02-18-19, 05:06 PM
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Thank you, @RiddleOfSteel . I’m very new to this brifter stuff, but I think I’ll get used to it. Just need to keep track in my mind where the chain is ... The challenge of getting the aesthetics right is what I like ☺️ Gotta respect the original design. I just wish the newer cranksets weren’t so garishly branded.
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Old 02-18-19, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Honusms View Post
Thank you, @RiddleOfSteel . Iím very new to this brifter stuff, but I think Iíll get used to it. Just need to keep track in my mind where the chain is ... The challenge of getting the aesthetics right is what I like ☺️ Gotta respect the original design. I just wish the newer cranksets werenít so garishly branded.
The brifter stuff is something I'm a big fan of. I still do downtube shifting on a few bikes--indexed very preferably (9 or 10 speeds, too)--and enjoy it, but I like the best-of-both-worlds result of modern (aka very capable) componentry with a vintage frame (ride quality and handling, looks too).

The branding and color scheme, well, and design, of newer cranksets and groupsets in general makes matching them to vintage frames a bit tricky. Non-metallic paint colors with simple graphics allow a sort of 'blank slate' approach with components. The paint and graphics recede, allowing the wheels and boldly-designed groupset to take center stage. Metallic paint colors like their complement of silver-adorned groupsets (kind of anything up until about 2010 it seems), though in the case of certain colors, like your Bertoni, the moody grey-champagne tone works with the serious-yet-restrained black components and finishing elements (bar tape, saddle, etc).

Modern groupset design has pretty well matched modern frame design in that both are bolder and louder and thicker etc etc etc. Put the newest stuff on a slender, traditionally-tubed steel frame and the frame will ask "Why are you shouting?" Big diameter frames like original Cannondales from the '80s (and continuing on) and Kleins allow the newest components to be hung on them because the big tubes match the thick, bold components (mostly cranksets). Both are proportional to each other. Cannondale's simpler non-metallic paint colors around the '90s help that as well.

If choosing a house is guided by the mantra "Location, location, location!" then outfitting C&V bikes in general (let alone with brifters/modern pieces) lives by "Composition, composition, composition!"
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Old 02-18-19, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
The brifter stuff is something I'm a big fan of. I still do downtube shifting on a few bikes--indexed very preferably (9 or 10 speeds, too)--and enjoy it, but I like the best-of-both-worlds result of modern (aka very capable) componentry with a vintage frame (ride quality and handling, looks too).

The branding and color scheme, well, and design, of newer cranksets and groupsets in general makes matching them to vintage frames a bit tricky. Non-metallic paint colors with simple graphics allow a sort of 'blank slate' approach with components. The paint and graphics recede, allowing the wheels and boldly-designed groupset to take center stage. Metallic paint colors like their complement of silver-adorned groupsets (kind of anything up until about 2010 it seems), though in the case of certain colors, like your Bertoni, the moody grey-champagne tone works with the serious-yet-restrained black components and finishing elements (bar tape, saddle, etc).

Modern groupset design has pretty well matched modern frame design in that both are bolder and louder and thicker etc etc etc. Put the newest stuff on a slender, traditionally-tubed steel frame and the frame will ask "Why are you shouting?" Big diameter frames like original Cannondales from the '80s (and continuing on) and Kleins allow the newest components to be hung on them because the big tubes match the thick, bold components (mostly cranksets). Both are proportional to each other. Cannondale's simpler non-metallic paint colors around the '90s help that as well.

If choosing a house is guided by the mantra "Location, location, location!" then outfitting C&V bikes in general (let alone with brifters/modern pieces) lives by "Composition, composition, composition!"
And I just recently found a bike that does better without modern wheels. I mocked up a Prologue frame with a modern wheelset after stripping and it didn't work. It puzzled me because I find modern wheels always look good to me. I finally figured out that the Prologue has enough going on with the two tone fade and multiple decals, that a modern wheelset just makes it too busy. I tried Fulcrum 5's and Bontrager Race Lites. I'll put the near new anodized MA 40's back on even though its more weight. Of course, this is all personal opinion

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Old 02-19-19, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sdn40 View Post
And I just recently found a bike that does better without modern wheels. I mocked up a Prologue frame with a modern wheelset after stripping and it didn't work. It puzzled me because I find modern wheels always look good to me. I finally figured out that the Prologue has enough going on with the two tone fade and multiple decals, that a modern wheelset just makes it too busy. I tried Fulcrum 5's and Bontrager Race Lites. I'll put the near new anodized MA 40's back on even though its more weight. Of course, this is all personal opinion
Every bike is a balance. And depending on your set of components and wheels, that factors into it noticeably. Obviously most importantly is the color scheme of your Prologue. I forget if you have the red/white or the grey/black. As I was able to obtain (having wanted it in the first place) a grey/black version, I wanted the components to be dark on it. And more speeds than just seven. Almost immediately the quest for full 7900-era Dura-Ace began. Between that and arriving at the optimal stem/bar combo, she is, pictured below, in her best form. And just a touch over 19 lbs (19 on the money or just under without bottle cage) with pedals. I'd love a set of deep section carbon wheels as that would look even more sinister. As it stands, you'll notice these WH-7850 (7800-era Dura-Ace alu/carbon medleys) are pretty low section by modern wheel standards. No traditional box section MA2/MA40s (which I very much like), but squared off in section no less (no V-shape at all). The wheelset's light weight (1431g) and lithe aesthetic truly complement the frame's light weight and lithe nature. The black and grey of the groupset matches the paint, and works to make this smoked and sinister looking bike.

Red/white Prologues (or any red/white bike) are tough to visually compose. It's either fully or near fully traditional (silver components, 7-speed, silver rims or MA40 dark grey) or fully aggressive with all black components and deep section wheels. The red/white just sort of sits on the fence, visually, to me, and it's up to me to take it one direction or the other. It offers no hints or desires, unlike, say a black or dark colored bike.

Anyway, here's what I have, and I think it's one of the best ways to compose this bike (there are not many bad ways to compose a grey/black Prologue, IMO). [pardon the interior shot]

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Old 02-19-19, 01:31 AM
  #7166  
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Originally Posted by Honusms View Post
Thank you, @RiddleOfSteel . Iím very new to this brifter stuff, but I think Iíll get used to it. Just need to keep track in my mind where the chain is ... The challenge of getting the aesthetics right is what I like ☺️ Gotta respect the original design. I just wish the newer cranksets werenít so garishly branded.
You donít have to use a modern, chunky looking crankset with brifters, despite what the manufacturers want you to believe/spend.
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Old 02-19-19, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
Every bike is a balance.
The black and grey of the groupset matches the paint, and works to make this smoked and sinister looking bike.

Red/white Prologues (or any red/white bike) are tough to visually compose.

Anyway, here's what I have, and I think it's one of the best ways to compose this bike (there are not many bad ways to compose a grey/black Prologue, IMO).
He knows of which he speaks, thus proven.
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