jonathan180iq

I just would like to say that now that I have been experiening the joy of friction shifting for the last month or so, I don't think I'll ever go back to index.

When I first got into cycling, I was under the impression that friction shifting was for the cheap-o wal-mart bike crowd. (no problem with wally bikes. let's not go there.)

However, after spending some time reading about friction shifting on the Rivendell bike site and trying it out for myself, I have to say that I will never go back. I'm using some "vintage" metal thumb shifters that I have converted over to friction.

What I am looking for now, to make my ride even smoother, is a suggestion for a smooth and light "vintage" rear derailleur that would go along well with my new shifting style.

Any ideas or personal likes to help me out?

Thanks,
Jonathan

Picchio Special

Depends on the range you need. Suntour Cyclone and Superbe are great, but won't handle a wide freewheel range, as they were designed more for racing (except for the long-cage Cyclone GT). The Huret Duopar is a wonderful friction shifting derailleur, but the top-shelf titanium version can be hard to find and pricey if you manage to locate one. All are light for the time in which they were made (mid-70's into the 80's).

vinfix

I just used a NOS Suntour Cyclone MK II on a build, it shifts a 7 speed 13-28 great. Wider range, smoother, and lighter, than Campy Nuovo Record, which is why I chose it on an otherwise complete Campy set-up.

MajorA

1980's Shimano ... I don't know what was below 105, but the heirarchy starting there, bottom to top, was 105, 600 (later Ultegra) and Dura Ace. You can get 105 and 600 rear derailleurs on eBay in decent shape for $10-25, lots less if you have a local bike coop with used parts bins.

Suntour from that era also gets good reviews, and I'm sure the Suntour fans here will chime in. Then there's always Campagnolo, but it costs lots extra because it's sprinkled with special Tullio Dust ... but that's best left for another day.

cyclotoine

a little pricey but apparently they work really well:

https://www.velo-orange.com/si440de.html

I second Major A though for value, 80s shimano rocks.

PolishGuy

My '82 Univega has the complete Shimano Dura Ace drive train on it. The rear derailer is super smooth in operation and a cinch to adjust. You should be able to find one for a very reasonable price either on e-bay, craigslist or the local used bike shop in your area. I too have been riding the friction system over that past year and am still amazed at how smooth and quiet it is. Also easier to shift than I first thought. PG.

Picchio Special

+1

There are quite a few very good Suntour derailleurs from the 80's as well. I initially listed earlier, pre-index-shifting-system ones. Superbe Pro, Cyclone Mk11, Sprint are good. But for friction shifting mojo, I like the slightly earlier stuff.

jonathan180iq

I currently run 6 spd 14-28.

I plan on getting a 7 spd 14-28 in the future.

Picchio Special

You're right on the edge of what many medium-cage derailleurs will handle comfortably. A long-cage model would have no difficulty.

John E

I concur. You can use some short-cage units with half-step gearing, such as 50-47 or 52-48 / 14-16-18-21-24-28, but you will probably need a long-cage unit for a triple or even for 1.5-step "Alpine" gearing, such as 52-42 / 14-16-18-21-24-28.

tolfan

I like the way the old shimano 600 stuff works and looks. You know the scroll work stuff that most people hate.

Yogurt

The Arabesque stuff is amazing, the shifters are beautiful. It's a shame I can't see the RD while I'm riding.

dbakl

Welcome to the world of simplicity. I always though indexing was a complicated solution to a nonexistent problem. As far as I'm concerned, nothing finer than a Nuovo Record.

MajorA

I only wish that more people hated it ... that way I could snag more of it on eBay for a decent price. I have a full group on my Bob Jackson and I love it, but jeez it's pricy ...

(Don't take that comment as meaning all Shimano 600 is overpriced, Jonathan; there was a period of a few years in the early/mid-'80's when the 600 stuff was gorgeously ornate, as you can see below ... it's usually referred to as "arabesque". It commands kind of a premium price.)

Grand Bois

Anybody tried a Nuovo Record derailer converted to a long cage with a Rally cage? There's a cage on eBay, but apparently somebody wants it real bad!

I just bougt a fully polished NR triple from Hilary Stone and I need a derailer to do it justice.

Lamplight

I just realized that I have yet to try an '80s Shimano, Suntour, or Campy derailleur that didn't work great with a decent set of friction shifters. My Nishiki has some generic Suntour DT shifters and a LePree rear derailleur, and it is probably my best-shifting bike.

jonathan180iq

I like the classic look of the arabesque stuff. Anything else with a classic feel to it like that?

I'm building away from newer looking spaceage bike parts. (I plan on wrapping my drops with cloth and getting some canvas panniers). Since I'm using "low-tech" friction shifters, I might as well get myself a low-tech derailleur to go along with it.

cadillacmike68

Except for, of course, SUPER Record

cyclotoine

Nice! I sent you a PM about a BB spindle. There is no reason this should not work since the second generation Rally was nothing more than a Nuovo Record body with gran sport bolts and a long cage.

Bikedued

What are you talking about? I picked my arabesque RD up at the flea market for 5 bucks? The kid didn't care what he had apparently, even after the other flea market bike guy told him. I'm looking for a FD still, but have the RD and shifters. Going on the Falcon once I get it going. Too many other projects. PX10, Collegiate flipper, Viscount Aerospace, the list goes on. Pretty soon I'll have to face the fact that
they're coming faster than I can rebuild them, hehe.

Cyclone MII excels at friction shifting IMHO. It almost shifts itself. I have it on my 83 Trek 560 with a Maillard Helico. All I hear when moving through the gears is a solid ka~chunk;ka~chunk..... Mechanical music. I can't wait for the arabesque trial run, or the Golden arrow group I just acquired. I have been lucky lately.,,,,BD

cyclotoine

I have always dumped this stuff whenever it comes my way, it's not that hard to find around here. I always have felt the rear derailleur looks cheep because there is so much stamped steel. I am honestly baffled by how much people like it. I much prefer similar era deore, it's superior to 600 in my opinion as it has full alloy construction and the stag head stuff is awesome. I passed on a staghead front derailleur today in fact.

Wino Ryder

I've rode bikes on and off all my life, and most of them were road bikes with DT friction shifters.

These here are campy 'Record' syncro 2 'index shifters (circa '92). As much as I like the friction shifters, these are pretty damn slick too.

sunsurfandsand

Fully agreed! One of my all time favorites.

Also great, if you can find it, is the 1975-ish Shimano Crane "GT" long cage. Shifted well (at least with the 5 speed freewheels of that time...can't say how it would behave with a narrow spaced cassette.)

TrekSandra

how much better is 600 than 105?

luker

600, depending on the vintage, can work much better than 105, but it's main selling point has almost always been better finish, and slightly less weight. The 600 stuff will last much longer, because it is made of better materials. That usually doesn't mean much, though, because the 105 stuff will last much longer than most people ride the bike. If you're putting in 400 mile weeks repeatedly, or plan on riding the bike for 20 years, the 600 will work out to be a better deal.