Old Fat Guy

I've been watching an auction of a very nice bike, and today went to see the bike in person. So far so good.

Well, my lovely wife starts poking around in the bid history, and lo and behold, nearly 50% of the activity is with the same seller, and for a wide variety of items. So I poke around a little further and find that a great deal of what the seller actually sells goes to a handful buyers.

Still with me?

I check those buyers and find that they are located in towns that the original seller has other stores, or more exactly, pawn shops, and they then try to resell the items on their eBay stores. Of course, I have reported them to eBay, and expect nothing to happen.

It would appear that the seller is having shill bidders run his prices up to a amount, and if someone is silly enough to get in a bidding war, they let them win for an inflated price, if not, they just move it to another one of their virtual locations and resell it.

The moral, if there is one, is not to get too caught up in an auction, and check the other bidders history.

I may still bid on this bike, but very carefully. Since it was mis listed and poorly described I thought it may fall through the cracks, but the seller knows full well what it is worth and has his shill guaranteeing that he gets his price.

dbakl

Well, have an idea what a bike is worth, then only bid what it's worth to you.

Old Fat Guy

The bike is worth well over $2k, not nearly that to me. Like I said, poorly described (wrong size, wrong frame material), and I was hoping for a steal.

What I'm saying is, there is no way that the seller is going to let it cheaply, in spite of being a 'no reserve' auction.

Otis

How do you even check this stuff anymore? Once it's bid over $200 you can't see bidder's i.d.'s or have access to their feedback. The only chance you have is if the shill bidder keeps winning, as the winner's i.d. is shown.

Since the guy is local why not call him on it. Just for a laugh you can ask him how much the fix is in for, as you will still bid if he's not being greedy. Don't get punched in the nose over it though!

dbakl

Then it ain't yer bike. If its worth more than you want to spend how can you expect to win? ("worth" being relative of course.)

infinityeye

ebay has got me down lately...

roccobike

That's a pretty nice scheme they have there. I hope ebay will do something. And they probably will, like giving the guy another star for selling so much merchandise.
I only bid what I think an item is worth. If I win, good, if not, it was too high priced. There's no accounting for those who sincerely value an item more than I do or shills bidding on ebay.
As for pawn shops, if you want to spend more than a bike is worth in my area of NC, go to a pawn shop. Guaranteed it will be either over priced or WAY over priced.

Old Fat Guy

Otis, this is what you can see:
Items bid on: 30
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 47%

The bidder has bid on no other cycling stuff, yet bids on a high end Italian bike?

When I look at the other auctions the seller has, every one of them, and there are pages of them, are bid on by the same handful of bidders. Each of those bidders are located where the seller has a pawn shop. He has six of them operating in the area.

dbakl, if I wanted to pay retail, I'd go to the LBS. If I wanted to fight, I'd call my ex-wife.

halcpa

Now that's a bumper sticker waiting to happen

dbakl

See my new ebay tactics post. No one can make you bid more than you think something is worth TO YOU.

For instance, a 60s Cinelli is worth $XXXX.XX dollars. You know what? It ain't worth that to me! I've sold a few I've had because they're worth so much to someone else. For the "worth" of that Cinelli I can have 6-8 other bikes that are, to me, just as "worthy". Ok, different people have different values.

If someone bids more than you think its worth it ain't your item. If someone is shill bidding something up, its going to reach a point of "non-worth" and nobody real is going to bid. Bid what its worth to you. Ebay is not the place for a bargain unless you're lucky or more knowledgeable than anyone else.

Old Fat Guy

dbakl,
If it's only me and the shill bidding, I pay more than I should.

Seems clear to me.

I will still bid a decent amount, if the shill wins, I know it will be up for sale again soon. I've gotten plenty of bargains on eBay. Like I said, if I wanted to pay retail I'd go to the LBS.

I think your eBay tactics are not so hot, but if that works for you, knock yourself out. You admitted in your 'tactics' post that you bid higher than you think it's worth, some tactic.

dbakl

Ok, peace and love. Stop by and see my collection someday.

Old Fat Guy

I'd love to. Are you in AZ?

dbakl

Nah, California. I got a relative frozen in Arizona though...

StephenH

"As for pawn shops, if you want to spend more than a bike is worth in my area of NC, go to a pawn shop. Guaranteed it will be either over priced or WAY over priced."

In a normal retail business, a store can lower their prices and make up for it by increased volume. In the case of a pawn shop, they have a fixed amount of goods coming in, and it makes more sense for them to squeeze every last penny out of an item, even if that means it stays on the shelf 6 months. I have seen bargains at pawn shops, but it's been a long time ago. I think the internet has killed that, as they can more easily research the value of goods sold.

As to Ebay sales, when figuring the worth of an item, figure in the hassle factor as well. If a bike is worth $2,000 to you when buying from a well-trusted local source with warranty, etc., then it shouldn't be worth near that when buying from a random stranger over the internet.

Old Fat Guy

Well, the shill just won the auction, I'm the next highest bidder, waiting for the second chance offer!

Tinkeric

That phony seller is still eating a lot unnecessary costs by doing that, though. There is a listing fee and a final value fee for every item that "sells."

East Hill

How'd you do?

East Hill

Rammer

Probably just another cost of business according to the scammer's plan. Even if only a fraction of the scammer's listings are won outright by a real bidder or second chance offers go through at near the shill inflated price, it may be worth the additional costs of making the shill bids and occassionally "winning"?

Sammyboy

Sure, it's just another cost of business to them. Unfortunately it means it's in eBay's interest not to take any action.

satbuilder 

Ebay doesn't really have a whole lot of incentive to change things, however dishonest they are, considering they're still getting paid. That's the rub.

Old Fat Guy

Yes, but if the 'buyer' backs out, I don't think there is a final valuation fee.

Naturally, I can't be positive that fraud is involved, but multiple flags have gone up, at least in my mind.

1) Every auction that this seller has immediately gets bid on by a handful of bidders. When the value is below $100, their ID's are plainly visible. Most of these bidders are in locations that the seller has another pawn shop.

2) It's a pawn shop running the auctions, they've been at it for less than a year, have 2000 feedback, a lot from the aforementioned group of buyers

3) The winning bidder of the bike I was looking at had 48% of his bidding activity with this seller

4) The winning bidder has never bought a bike, a part for a bike, a bike related anything, yet they were bidding on a high end, custom bike?

5) There's a good chance the bike in question was stolen, (they practically admitted this to me when I looked at it) though I did a diligent search looking for it reported somewhere as being stolen and came up with nada.

The auction ended at the close of business yesterday, if it is a scam I would expect to see it relisted or a second chance offer by the end of the week.