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Falck tubing

Old 12-22-07, 07:24 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by caterham View Post
obviously.

ps-conversely, with the limited information provided, it hasn't yet been ascertained that any Falck tubings were of true seamless construction.

As Jemoryl previously pointed out, the decal image provided by Dbakl states "senza saldatura" which translates "without welding" (i.e. seamless).
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Old 12-22-07, 08:04 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
As Jemoryl previously pointed out, the decal image provided by Dbakl states "senza saldatura" which translates "without welding" (i.e. seamless).
"without welding" may only mean that of the final drawing process ,yet the billet itself could be formed from sheet,rolled and welded and then drawn into the final tube in the same manner as columbus aelle. The description given in martl's reference where he quotes:" all falck tubings are welded, but so nicely done it can only be detected (just) under a microscope" would be entirely consistant with a seamed billet,cold drawn construction method.

Last edited by caterham; 12-22-07 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 12-30-07, 01:37 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by caterham View Post
"without welding" may only mean that of the final drawing process ,yet the billet itself could be formed from sheet,rolled and welded and then drawn into the final tube in the same manner as columbus aelle. The description given in martl's reference where he quotes:" all falck tubings are welded, but so nicely done it can only be detected (just) under a microscope" would be entirely consistant with a seamed billet,cold drawn construction method.

True, but again that would only only be applicable to relatively modern tubesets. It does not explain why boom era Falck sets have no visible seams and why many highly respected Italian manufacturers used the tubing on mid to upper end models at a time when seamed tubes had a bad reputation. The only other explanation that I can come up with is that Falck's technology was decades more advanced than Reynolds' or Columbus' technology.
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Old 12-31-07, 03:38 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The only other explanation that I can come up with is that Falck's technology was decades more advanced than Reynolds' or Columbus' technology.
TMK, Falck was primarily an industrial tubing manufacturer that branched into cycling whereas Reynolds and particularly Columbus existed largely as suppliers of bicycle specific tubings- a relatively small & narrowly focused market.

I see no reason to just assume that either Columbus and/or Reynolds were the original innovators of seamed billet,drawn tubing.In fact, I would be more inclined to think it an already well-proven, if not common process by the mid-50's(ie: post WWII).

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
True, but again that would only only be applicable to relatively modern tubesets. It does not explain why boom era Falck sets have no visible seams and why many highly respected Italian manufacturers used the tubing on mid to upper end models at a time when seamed tubes had a bad reputation.
Such a tubing does not have an obviously visible seam* per se. The drawing process essentially stretches, mashes, rolls & flattens the welded join of the raw billet, leaving for the finished tube a smooth, even join for both it's ID and OD.
For the builder, it would be an 'obviously' superior product to that of any common seamed tube(ie-pipe) and would not require any additional prep work or reaming and it's strength nearly equaling that of a true seamless tube.

Last edited by caterham; 12-31-07 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 12-31-07, 11:35 AM
  #30  
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is it assumed ?
i'm pretty sure Mr. Reynolds patented the process of drawing a tube from a solid ingot in like 1898...

wait what is seamed billet drawn tubing ?

Originally Posted by caterham View Post
I see no reason to just assume that either Columbus and/or Reynolds were the original innovators of seamed billet,drawn tubing.In fact, I would be more inclined to think it an already well-proven, if not common process by the mid-50's(ie: post WWII).
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Old 01-02-08, 09:01 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by coelcanth View Post
is it assumed ?
i'm pretty sure Mr. Reynolds patented the process of drawing a tube from a solid ingot in like 1898...
According to the company history on http://web.archive.org/web/199801091...y/history.html
Reyonlds patented the butted tubing in 1897...
The Patent on seamless steeltube manufacturing is from Mannesmann 1885.

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Old 01-02-08, 12:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by caterham View Post
TMK, Falck was primarily an industrial tubing manufacturer that branched into cycling whereas Reynolds and particularly Columbus existed largely as suppliers of bicycle specific tubings- a relatively small & narrowly focused market.
There's not as much difference between the companies as you suggest. While Reynolds and Colombo both started out as bicycle tubing manufacturers, they both quickly diversified in the aeronautical, automotive and other industries. In the case of Colombo, the bicycle tubing almost became a sideline and a separate company, Columbus, was formed in the late 1970's to give more emphasis to the bicycle tubesets. However, even at the height of their popularity, circa 1985, bicycle tubing was only 20% of total sales of the parent company.


Originally Posted by caterham View Post
I see no reason to just assume that either Columbus and/or Reynolds were the original innovators of seamed billet,drawn tubing.In fact, I would be more inclined to think it an already well-proven, if not common process by the mid-50's(ie: post WWII).
It was never stated that Reynolds or Columbus were the original innovators of seamed, billet drawn tubing. I only find it curious that, if what you suggest is true, neither Reynolds nor Columbus bothered to implement it for decades.
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Old 01-02-08, 03:03 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
There's not as much difference between the companies as you suggest. While Reynolds and Colombo both started out as bicycle tubing manufacturers, they both quickly diversified in the aeronautical, automotive and other industries. In the case of Colombo, the bicycle tubing almost became a sideline and a separate company, Columbus, was formed in the late 1970's to give more emphasis to the bicycle tubesets. However, even at the height of their popularity, circa 1985, bicycle tubing was only 20% of total sales of the parent company.
It was never stated that Reynolds or Columbus were the original innovators of seamed, billet drawn tubing. I only find it curious that, if what you suggest is true, neither Reynolds nor Columbus bothered to implement it for decades.
Both Reynolds and Columbus were manfacturers of seamless construction tubings aimed at the quality end of the market.Their market advantage was established specifically *because* they could produce the highest quality seamless tubing products tailored specifically to the bicycle industry.The primary advantage of the seamed-billet, drawn tube is a reduction of cost.For Columbus and Reynolds, the move would have been perceived internally as downmarket , that is until more intense competitive pressure from other manufacturers necessitated that they augment their lines with a more economical product.

Last edited by caterham; 01-03-08 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 01-02-08, 03:32 PM
  #34  
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In the early 80s, I believe Bianchi made a frame that had columbus main tubes and falk (I believe it was spelled falk) forks and stays.
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Old 09-26-16, 09:32 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Mike01 View Post
I have been trying (rather unsuccesfully) to find out some more about Falck tubing. I know their corporate history and all that. I also believe they stopped producing bike tubing in the late 80s.
Searching the net and Google I´ve come up with very little about the tubing itself, I´d like to know more about the technical specs, tube composition, diameters and not least - wall thicknesses!
There does´nt seem to have been any catalogs or leaflets etc produced as I can´t find a single reference to any, just some photos of the tubing decal for the most common straight gauge 0.8 tubing. I find this odd, since there were many manufacturers that used Falck tubing, like Legnano, Cinelli, Guerciotti and many others.
Can someone help me shed some more light on this or point me to other sources?
ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNAL: Falck Steel, The Other Italian Steel
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Old 04-20-19, 11:48 AM
  #36  
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The frame-builder Ed Litton has been working on my bike, and he found a Falck mark stamped into the tubes. He told me Falck tubing was often used for the more budget-bikes in a lineup. However, Falck also made high quality tubes too, so it's not an absolute indicator.
Litton also said the owner (I forget the name) of the Falck factory was assassinated by Italian communists
My frame is double butted tubing for a Mexican-made Windsor from ???? year.
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Old 04-20-19, 12:10 PM
  #37  
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IIRC Ed got a supply of Falck stays from Albert when the latter moved shop back in the 1980's.

Ed reported that Albert liked to employ Falck stays for certain applications.

Falck was analogous to the United States Steel of Italy.

At one time Columbus tubes were reportedly drawn from Falck blanks.

Family members were forever getting into the nation's tabloids for their scandalous exploits.

-----
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Old 04-20-19, 12:31 PM
  #38  
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I heard some hearsay (so cannot vouch for it) that there was some connection between Falck and Mannesmann, but don't find the evidence whether it was that M supplied raw or finished materials to F or that M purchased/absorbed F...but what I DO know is that Lubellula is DRAGONFLY in English, (not FIREFLY)
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Old 04-20-19, 12:35 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Nathanael47 View Post
...Litton also said the owner (I forget the name) of the Falck factory was assassinated by Italian communists
...
Hmm, that the same myth that's attributed to the death of Emilio Bozzi, owner of the Legnano brand and another user of Falck tubing. In Bozzi's case, it's pure myth, as he actually died decades prior to the myth date. Had the myth been true, the communists would have hunted down and executed a 101 year old man.
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Old 04-20-19, 02:12 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
I heard some hearsay (so cannot vouch for it) that there was some connection between Falck and Mannesmann, but don't find the evidence whether it was that M supplied raw or finished materials to F or that M purchased/absorbed F...but what I DO know is that Lubellula is DRAGONFLY in English, (not FIREFLY)
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+1

Their symbol has always looked like a dragonfly to me. But then of course am no entomologist.

Owned a Frejus pista made of the stuff.


-----

Last edited by juvela; 04-20-19 at 02:14 PM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 04-20-19, 02:30 PM
  #41  
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Old thread.

Here's a mid-80s Viner Record with Falck stays and Columbus SL main tubes, Campagnolo ends. The Falck seat stays are shaped biconical. I like this ride.

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Old 04-21-19, 03:09 PM
  #42  
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-----

FALK tubing transfer on Carabela Semi-Pro -




Machine dated by owner as ~1974.

----
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Old 04-21-19, 07:35 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Sorry, all I know is I've had a couple of Legnanos in Falck tubing. Here is the decal I copied from one:
Emilio Bozzi and Falck from Germany. Bozzi was the distributor for Falck, at least in Italy. My Gran Premio was made from Falck tubing.
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Old 05-12-19, 08:40 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Nathanael47 View Post
Litton also said the owner (I forget the name) of the Falck factory was assassinated by Italian communists
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Hmm, that the same myth that's attributed to the death of Emilio Bozzi, owner of the Legnano brand and another user of Falck tubing. In Bozzi's case, it's pure myth, as he actually died decades prior to the myth date. Had the myth been true, the communists would have hunted down and executed a 101 year old man.
​​​​​The owner/manager during WWII (Giovanni Falck) was imprisoned twice by the Republic of Salò regime for being in contact with the partisans and trying to prevent machinery from being moved by the Nazis to Germany. He died in 1972.

Perhaps the assassination refers to the killing of a Falck technical director named Manfredo Mazzanti by the members of a left-wing terrorist group called "Colonna Walter Alasia" (they were an offshoot of the Red Brigades).
Mazzanti was shot on his way to work, not too far from his home. The poor guy was picked because he was easily identified from photo published in the company newspaper.
The assassins fled the scene on... bicycles.
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