Steelwool

Hello,

This is my first post here after lurking for sometime.

I picked up this frame from the basement of a bike shop on a recent trip to Paris. Other than the Reynolds sticker, the down tube decal and campy dropouts I can't see any markings. No serial number etc.
Is this actually a Singer? I would guess early 70's any thoughts?

The next question is what to do with the frame, its too small for me however if it truly is a Singer I feel it's worth hanging onto. Would you rebuild it as is with period parts, go for a repaint......?

Ex Pres 

BF member HDFACTORYCERTIF has a Singer. Maybe he can be of some assistance in authenticating/dating.

USAZorro

The graphic looks authentic, but the location of it makes me suspicious.

evwxxx

A cheaper version, if indeed a Singer. Only 3 main tubes are 531, according to the decal, and Huret components. Is that rear drop out even forged??

East Hill

Hi Steelwool, I went to take a look at your website, but the link isn't working properly. No problem, I still found you . Very nice bikes there--are you going to go to the NAHBS?

Uh, exactly how big is that might be a Singer?

Welcome to BF and C & V!

East Hill

Steelwool

Thanks for the kind words about Steelwool. Won't be making it to NAHBS this year as its a bit far, we wouldn't really qualify anyway since only one of our frames is made in Canada, the others are Taiwanese.
Going to try and make it to Le Cirque this summer.

The Singer Measurements center to center are: TT 54 ST 49

el twe

Do you have a close-up of those dropouts? They don't look like any Campy dropouts I've seen.

lotek 

If I recall correctly Alex Singer did market a "lower tier" bike. I seem to remember
reading that on CR list, but can't find the post.
Maybe an off the peg bike for those who didn't want/need the full blown
Alex Singer treatment?

marty

Steelwool

Here is a close-up.

el twe

Well, there it is. Interesting. Yeah, I have no idea what to tell you about the frame.

USAZorro

Sounds like a case worth sending to the Classic Rendezvous list.

dbakl

Looks like a Gran Sport dropout. I have em on my Falcon. Zeus made a set like those as well.

repechage

One came up on ebay a while ago, I might be wrong but I think it went cheap, or did not get much action. A lesson as to why a top tier shop should only keep top tier, for decades Masi only made one bike level, professional, nothing lower. As Singer is still in business why not inquire there? The better question is, why not take it there at the time? Singer is in the greater Paris region.

Steelwool

I wish I could have made it to the Singer shop. Unfortunately I didn't do my homework and by the time I figured it out I only had two days left in Paris Sunday and Monday. The days of the week they close....go figure.
Maybe I will contact them.

rmfnla

Looks like a cheapie model; most of the euros made them.

Two more places to look:

1. The bottom of the BB shell; is there a seam running across it? If so it is formed from sheet metal (and welded) as opposed to cast, an indication of lower quality.

2. The Seat post bolt lugs; solid or hollow? Solid is obviously better; hollow means another formed sheet metal part and implies that all the lugs are so made (which I suspect is the case, based on the photos).

luker

Well, its a nice enough bike, and there were many that used the three main tube approach to a middle-tier price point. No, I wouldn't paint it, the finish is really pretty good, and the originality is something that is going for it...

In fact, the little devil on my shoulder says that you otta make a single-speed, front-braked, brooks-saddled, track-hubbed latte getter (with a handlebar mounted bottle cage). Post them pics up on CR, and brace yourself for the firestorm!

Road Fan

I've seen those dropouts before. Tony Oliver stated he did not like to build with them in his book "Touring Bikes." My Mondonico has those head lugs, and I think I've seen some pix of Singer racing frames with long points. Answer: who knows?

There are some Singer afficionados on Classic Rendezvous, or perhaps contact Jan Heine, editor of Bicycling Quarterly.

Pompiere

It's funny that many of the names we associate only with high level racing bikes in the U.S. are full line manufacturers in their own country, making everything from the pro racing bike down to the kids sidewalk bikes.

Steelwool

1. Yes the bb has the seam.

2. Hollow


Overall you can tell the quality of workmanship is not too high, you can see rough file marks etc

rmfnla

It's really just basic economics.

How many high-end bikes can a company sell; enough to stay in business? No way, so they offer products that appeal to the full market, not just a rarified segment. Especially in Europe, where they are not as bling-crazy about their bikes as we are on this side of the pond.

We associate those names with high-end because those models had the least amount of competition back then, so that's all they exported here. Except for the Paramount there was no American high-zoot bikes unless you went custom, and those were few and far between.

Pompiere

I understand why the companies do it. I just meant that it's funny how some of us look at those companies as if they only made high end stuff.

Grand Bois

A lower priced line makes sense, but still it's hard for me to believe that a frame like that came from this shop:

https://www.ece.ubc.ca/~gillies/singer/

stronglight

Of course, if it were in the basement of a different Parisian bike shop... the owner, or a mechanic may have just strolled over to the Singer shop one day, scammed them out of a couple decals, and toyed with the frameset to use as their own project bike. Maybe just something to ride himself through the high theft city. If I were living in NYC, I might make my own FauxMasi just to class-up a daily rider.

Looks like a decently made bike. The lugs seem to be okay quality and construction looks to be solid overall. I would think it very odd the shop had never sold it in their showroom and made some serious Francs if it had been the real deal.

I imagine they had never intended to defraud. But then, after a few decades, and possibly various owners, a frameset can even take on its own rumored history. My favorite being what was commonly understood to be an old "Italian made Masi" frameset, raced by the former owner's son. It had been sitting back in one shop area for years, ... a little battered, it had all the Masi livery, but taking a close look, it had a bottom bracket clearly marked with a deeply indented large square logo: "TREK"

rmfnla

Read the second part again.

cudak888 

Even on a cheapie model, I don't believe any self-respecting framebuilder - particularly Singer - would let a frame out with a seatstay/dropout joint as rough as your example. Get a load of the un-filed, slapped-on seatstay caps too, and the thickness of the lug ends.

I've seen better finishing on some Bike-Boom-era Carlton Raleighs...

-Kurt