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-   -   Hammering on the classic. (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/379048-hammering-classic.html)

garysol1 01-14-08 12:13 PM

Hammering on the classic.
 
The Bike:
1985ish Benotto/Columbus SL tubing
Campy SR deraileurs, 6 speed regina freewheel
Friction shifters.

Problem: When I put the hammer down the bike consistently down shifts, sometimes putting the chain between the cogs which makes for a very eye opening moment. What is going on here?
I have checked all the mechanicals. Dérailleurs have no play in them and shift perfectly. The levers are nice and tight. The freewheel has no play. Am I running into frame flex? Any other idea's on things I can check?
Assuming it is frame flex I guess there is not really much I can do or is there?

cyclotoine 01-14-08 12:17 PM

tighten the shifters?

garysol1 01-14-08 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by cyclotoine (Post 5980300)
tighten the shifters?

did it.....They are not moving at all unless I move them.

barndoor 01-14-08 12:38 PM

Check the chain.....very carefully!.....look to see if one of the pin ends are broken off or see if a link is bent...

barba 01-14-08 12:41 PM

Is the cable routed under the bottom bracket shell?

garysol1 01-14-08 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by barba (Post 5980444)
Is the cable routed under the bottom bracket shell?

Yes, it runs through a small guide under the shell.

barba 01-14-08 12:45 PM

Sounds like frame flex induced ghost shifting to me. I would liberally lube up the area where the cable goes through the guide. Sometimes that helps a bit.

GCRyder 01-14-08 12:50 PM

Did someone slip you a 9-speed chain when you weren't looking? If your chain can actually land between cogs, then that chain is too narrow (which would also cause it to jump off when stressed, because it can't get fully engaged on the cog teeth). Barring the remote possibility that you somehow got you cogs too widely spaced, that's about the only possible explanation for having a chain land between cogs.

garysol1 01-14-08 12:50 PM


Originally Posted by barba (Post 5980473)
I would liberally lube up the area where the cable goes through the guide. Sometimes that helps a bit.

good call. I will go out and make sure it is clean and lubed up. Thanks

garysol1 01-14-08 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by GCRyder (Post 5980499)
If your chain can actually land between cogs, then that chain is too narrow

It won't stay between gears but it slips instantaneously just for a brief moment. Just long enough to make you back off so you don't rack the boys on the top tube. I am sure it is a 6 speed chain......at least I think I am sure :)

cuda2k 01-14-08 01:00 PM

I had the same issue on the Gazelle last time I put the hammer down (7sp Sachs freewheel, SRAM 8sp chain, Super Record derailleurs), I'm going to have to give the under the BB area some lubing tonight.

garysol1 01-14-08 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by GCRyder (Post 5980499)
Did someone slip you a 9-speed chain when you weren't looking? .

Here is a pic. Maybe someone will see something I don't.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...to/Picture.jpg

barba 01-14-08 01:14 PM

It looks like a mighty nice drivetrain to me! Let us know if greasing the cable guide helps much. I had the same problem on a bike. The gunk and lack of lube in the guide made it act kind of like a one-way clutch with the cable. The frame would flex and pull the cable and it would kind of stick for a second. I nearly had a crotch on the top tube incident a few times. Cleaning and lubing the guide helped a great deal, but it doesn't make frame flex go away of course.

garysol1 01-14-08 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by barba (Post 5980645)
Let us know if greasing the cable guide helps much.

Looking at the weather it may be a while. I was going to throw her on the trainer to see but I am guessing that by the the trainer holding the bike by the rear axle that will help to eliminate the flex........yes?

SoreFeet 01-14-08 01:35 PM

Just change the cable and lube it up...Maybe change the cable housing. Changing cables is a worthy low cost upgrade to not have to worry about anything for thousands of miles.

caloso 01-14-08 01:40 PM

Is the derailller hanger aligned? Looks straight to me, but you can't eyeball it. The shop will have a tool that checks it.

rmfnla 01-14-08 01:44 PM

Have you checked to make sure the derailleur hanger is straight?

garysol1 01-14-08 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by rmfnla (Post 5980823)
Have you checked to make sure the derailleur hanger is straight?

It eyeballs straight. Shifts perfectly until I am really stomping on it hard. Wouldn't a bent hanger cause poor shifting all the time?

caloso 01-14-08 01:55 PM

In my experience, a bent DR hanger causes poor ****ing in some gears, not all. So you can get it to sit perfectly on the top gears, but it won't shift correctly all the way across the range.

[edit] Apparently, if you misspell "shifting" the censorbot will get you!

marqueemoon 01-14-08 03:22 PM

Stiff link in the chain?

RK1963 01-14-08 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by garysol1 (Post 5980265)
The Bike:
1985ish Benotto/Columbus SL tubing
Campy SR deraileurs, 6 speed regina freewheel
Friction shifters.

Problem: When I put the hammer down the bike consistently down shifts, sometimes putting the chain between the cogs which makes for a very eye opening moment. What is going on here?
I have checked all the mechanicals. Dérailleurs have no play in them and shift perfectly. The levers are nice and tight. The freewheel has no play. Am I running into frame flex? Any other idea's on things I can check?
Assuming it is frame flex I guess there is not really much I can do or is there?

Do you have a big enough "loop" in cable going from the chain stay stop to the RD? A big enough loop helps to keep the chain where you want it on the freewheel when you are running friction DT shifters.
Could you post a picture of this area?

RK1963 01-14-08 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by garysol1 (Post 5980600)
Here is a pic. Maybe someone will see something I don't.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...to/Picture.jpg


I would create a bigger cable loop than the one shown here

garysol1 01-14-08 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by marqueemoon (Post 5981380)
Stiff link in the chain?

NOTTA....

garysol1 01-14-08 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by RK1963 (Post 5981433)
A big enough loop helps to keep the chain where you want it on the freewheel when you are running friction DT shifters.
Could you post a picture of this area?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...Picture001.jpg

jfmckenna 01-14-08 03:52 PM

I cannot use my 6 speed Regina freewheel on my Guerciotti with 8 speed cassette and 8 speed chain because as was mentioned the chain is too thin and will 'fit' (more like slide over) between the cogs. If you are only not quite sure what kind of chain you have I'd investigate that again. Perhaps measuring with calipers will suffice but I don't know what the specs would be.


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