Road Fan

Or a Masi, or a Mondonico from the later '80s.

Picchio Special

"Fantastic craftsmanship" was largely gone by the later 80's. That was the point - frame building employed every labor-saving trick it could devise. Excellent frames, maybe. "Fantastic craftsmanship" definitely not.

repechage

As I just viewed:

https://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Colnago-...d=p3286.c0.m14

sorry for the nasty wrap

ebay item #

140274594212

a 1971 Colnago, too bad about the tweaked downtube, but nice graphics, not stellar workmanship, but still aesthetically pleasing, fork crown is pretty, some extra cut outs, I am very happy it is not my size, or I would buy it and have Brian Baylis replace the downtube and paint it electric blue.

balindamood

FWIW- I have an '82 Super and it rides VERY nicely, the finishing is OK, but the paint is pure crap, and it is nothing compared to my '86 3Rensho.

HOWEVER, I also have an '82 Univega Gran Premio. Hands down a better bike in ALL useful regards...paint, lugwork, ride, Suntour Cyclone vs. Campy Record (yes, I have 15,000 miles+ on each bike, and I prefer the Suntour for feel and being more fuss free). Granted, the club lug cut-outs are more clever than the Uni's diamond cut-outs, and I like the burgandy red (or what is left of it) of the Colnago over the Univega's stupid logo and baige-champagne color.

anomaly

I think my Paramount is a hands down better bike than my Sprint, which was 1 step down in the model range from the Super.

Road Fan

Are you talking about California Masi of the late '80s, Alberto Masi late '80s, or Mondonico late '80s?

I have a Cal Masi 1980, and I think the craftsmanship is right up there. I have a Mondo around 1980 to 1983, and it is a racing tool, not a finely finished piece - as you say, a great frame, but. I think (guess I don't KNOW) Antonio Mondonico raised his game as the sales and prestige improved. At least I saw an early '90s steel Mondo, and it was very cleanly made.

I can't say anything about Italian Masi, or US Masis of the later decade, and did not intend to.

Picchio Special

There's a difference between "very cleanly made" and "fantastic craftsmanship." A lot of labor-saving techniques were introduced in the making of steel frames throughout the 80's. A brazing carousel, to cite one example, might produce perfectly good frames, but the "craftsmanship" is considerably less than would have been the case in prior eras of framebuilding. There are lots of other examples typical of 80's frames - plug-ins being a common one, and those hideous taped dropout-chainstay junctions. Clean, yes; requiring a high degree of craftsmanship, no. The biggest culprit in the move away from true handbuilding was the introduction of cast lugs in the late 70's into the 80's. A 1980 Cali Masi would be an example of a cast lug bike, in which the degree of craftsmanship to achieve a high standard of finish would be considerably less than would have been the case on the earlier pressed lug bikes - one reason why the pressed lug bikes are preferred by many Masi collectors. I'm not saying the bikes aren't good, I'm saying that they simply require less craftsmanship than was the case before these labor-savers were developed and widely adopted.

repechage

I've got both, my view looking at examples, the Masi's in the 1978 to late 1979 (perhaps some in 1977) were the "quickies". In 1980, Rob Roberson was building, in 1981, Dave Moulton in addition to him, they spent more time than you would think, the benefits of an investment cast lug was it is closer to net finish, providing, an angle did not need to be changed, if that was necessary, (lower head lugs most often, and bottom bracket shells) a Pressed lug was easier. Now Masi did use a cast shell throughout, sand cast then IC, the investment cast shell required mush less filing to get an acceptable Surface finish. The IC lugs saved time overall, no need to cut the windows and recreate the shoreline, but in any stamped lug bike there will be more variation than a investment cast lug frame, the problem and Art of hand work. Georgeous hand filing and paint can mask bad mitering and overheated tubes all the time. So one looks to the integrity of the builder for assurance. So, less craftsmanship? Not really, less time? most likely.

Picchio Special

Bad mitering and overheated tubes would of course be examples of bad craftsmanship. IMO, "fantastic craftsmanship" would involve the whole shootin' match - gorgeous hand filing into the bargain. I also don't believe that more variation is necessarily a flaw. So I guess we'll (again) agree to disagree on the pressed vs. IC lug thing. There are, in any case, some IC lugged bikes I rather like - an example being the early Ciocc's, where the extra thin lugs required real brazing skill. I would certainly agree that IC lugs provide more precision. And that the pressed vs. IC lugs is far from the sole measure of craftsmanship.

Rebellious

old thread... ok I have a Colnago Super 1980s, blue, BRAND NEW, I知 the original owner but I never built it yet. I知 surprised nobody posted pics!

I知 getting ready to build it, so I値l take some photos in its virgin state. Maybe I値l start a pics-only Colnago thread. The lugs are absolutely flawless, has a strange mount for the rear brake, meh, who needs brakes, gonna use a Nitto bullhorn