The Dutch invasion (or show us your DUTCH bikes)
07-17-12, 04:26 PM
#601
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After trying a number of different methods in the end I had to cut it off.
Then I used this saw
to cut the remaining in four parts like this
Hit it and voila.
Good luck. :-)
Then I used this saw
to cut the remaining in four parts like this
Hit it and voila.
Good luck. :-)
07-17-12, 07:24 PM
#602
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What an epic thread this is turning out to be! I know its not ment to be a contest, and they are all very fine bicycles, but would any of the hardcore dutch bike experts in here dare to make a prioritized list of bikes and builders? Top 5? Candidates would be Zieleman, Presto, RIH, Gazelle, Batavus, Brands, Duell, Vitus...any others? Which are the very finest?
07-18-12, 12:05 PM
#603
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Steinbra, are you sure you want to do this? You know you are not going to get an answer. This will probably lead to a discussion on what makes a fine bike (my estimate: 2 pages, at least), whether these criteria should be used to judge frame builders or brand owners (another page), what defines a Dutch brand (8 posts minimum), after which the debate stops and the attention shifts because someone finds something very interesting in a barn in Arizona that says "Bakker, Alphen aan den Rijn".
07-19-12, 05:46 AM
#604
Senior Member
What an epic thread this is turning out to be! I know its not ment to be a contest, and they are all very fine bicycles, but would any of the hardcore dutch bike experts in here dare to make a prioritized list of bikes and builders? Top 5? Candidates would be Zieleman, Presto, RIH, Gazelle, Batavus, Brands, Duell, Vitus...any others? Which are the very finest?
I think there is only one Dutch brand that has a Bugatti-esque status and that is Fongers. That are traditional bikes however. They didn't do competition bikes, as cycling in competition was something for the lower classes. With the competion bikes it is less simple. They all have their qualities.
07-19-12, 08:01 AM
#605
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Steinbra,
In addition to the 2 previous posts we also need to take into consideration time period of the bike.
A top of the line Jabo from the early 60's is a very different beast than a mid 70's RIH. Then there's the
whole question of a production shop (Batavus) vs small one man operation (RIH).
I think the only thing we could say is what constitutes a Dutch Bike, built in the Netherlands.
Personally? I'd put Zieleman on top of the heap, but then I'm rather biased....
Marty
What? you thought I'd say some other marque? really?
In addition to the 2 previous posts we also need to take into consideration time period of the bike.
A top of the line Jabo from the early 60's is a very different beast than a mid 70's RIH. Then there's the
whole question of a production shop (Batavus) vs small one man operation (RIH).
I think the only thing we could say is what constitutes a Dutch Bike, built in the Netherlands.
Personally? I'd put Zieleman on top of the heap, but then I'm rather biased....
Marty
What? you thought I'd say some other marque? really?
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07-24-12, 09:20 PM
#606
Running on plenty
The Dutch actually stumbled across Australia first, y'know. Now we get some of their stuff:
NOS '91 Champion Mondial AB with Campagnolo Veloce all over it, Cinelli Touch with 1A, polished Ritchey seat post and white-on-white Arione, XR-30 rims on Ultegra hubs with conversion cassette. Its a delight to ride.
NOS '91 Champion Mondial AB with Campagnolo Veloce all over it, Cinelli Touch with 1A, polished Ritchey seat post and white-on-white Arione, XR-30 rims on Ultegra hubs with conversion cassette. Its a delight to ride.
07-24-12, 09:39 PM
#607
presto, pronto, prego!
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Steinbra,
In addition to the 2 previous posts we also need to take into consideration time period of the bike.
A top of the line Jabo from the early 60's is a very different beast than a mid 70's RIH. Then there's the
whole question of a production shop (Batavus) vs small one man operation (RIH).
I think the only thing we could say is what constitutes a Dutch Bike, built in the Netherlands.
Personally? I'd put Zieleman on top of the heap, but then I'm rather biased....
Marty
What? you thought I'd say some other marque? really?
In addition to the 2 previous posts we also need to take into consideration time period of the bike.
A top of the line Jabo from the early 60's is a very different beast than a mid 70's RIH. Then there's the
whole question of a production shop (Batavus) vs small one man operation (RIH).
I think the only thing we could say is what constitutes a Dutch Bike, built in the Netherlands.
Personally? I'd put Zieleman on top of the heap, but then I'm rather biased....
Marty
What? you thought I'd say some other marque? really?
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07-24-12, 09:54 PM
#608
presto, pronto, prego!
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Did I mention my 1972, Jan Legrand build, framenumber 2114, Presto is finished? Well it is. I even rode it a couple of times .. So here its fitted with spd pedals and clincher wheels (MA40 tims, Deda Tre tires). For exhibition purposes I have a pair of tubular wheels, period correct Record hubs ('73), GP4 rims 28 spokes. A bit dangerous to actually ride them I think.
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Last edited by s70rguy; 07-24-12 at 10:12 PM.
07-25-12, 11:21 AM
#609
Senior Member
@familyman
Very nice AB. A NOS one! Was it hard to ride the NOS'ness off of it? What size is it?
@s70rguy
Very nice Presto. 1st time I encounter a painted Presto'esque fork.
Very nice AB. A NOS one! Was it hard to ride the NOS'ness off of it? What size is it?
@s70rguy
Very nice Presto. 1st time I encounter a painted Presto'esque fork.
07-25-12, 11:54 AM
#610
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Now that you mention it ...
A high end Koga Miyata dressed up as a Gazelle Champion Mondial. What would that be, 3/4 Dutch? A quadroon? Best of both worlds? Blasphemy? The best built Gazelle ever?
07-25-12, 01:44 PM
#612
Senior Member
Good eye
07-25-12, 03:19 PM
#613
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I gotta be careful with posting pictures here! But yes, that's an '82 FullPro. Sold the frame because it was way too small for me and mrs non-fixie didn't like the color 
. However, it should be on its way to Alpe d'Huez by now with its new owner.
As bought:
. However, it should be on its way to Alpe d'Huez by now with its new owner.As bought:
07-25-12, 06:15 PM
#614
Running on plenty
It's a 61ST 58TT c/c. A good size for me with my long legs and short arms. The stem is 120mm, could do with a 110mm or even a 100mm, but I already got the 1A and bars at the right price. Maybe one day I'll switch them. Its got 450km on it to date, in 6 months. I've got a few other rides that I switch around on. It was kinda hard/kinda not to get on it and ride it. It wasnt made for a wall hanging!
07-25-12, 10:32 PM
#616
presto, pronto, prego!
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Btw, the milled/drilled parts come from a Springfield!
@ Buldogge: no, I didn't try that yet. There is a nice decent not far from here where speeds up to 70 kph are easily reached, so maybe I'll do that one some day!
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07-26-12, 05:58 AM
#617
presto, pronto, prego!
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07-27-12, 07:32 AM
#618
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07-29-12, 03:52 PM
#620
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Repainted Champion mondial?
This one is borderline vintage. Seller said 1992, which is supported by a serial # ending in 92. The frame, labeled Gold Line Racing, appears to be basically new. No scratches, no chain whips, nothing. The components are mostly 74xx Dura-Ace, and run the gamut from mint to worn out. Included was a bike computer reading nearly 10000 km on the odometer.
The seller, which is a well known European bike author, claimed it was custom built of Reynolds 753 for a PDM team mechanic, but the frame has no tubing decals. So an interesting mind game to figure it all out, but likely never will.
It is the youngest bike in my growing stable. I wanted to see what deep-V rims, dual pivot brakes and brifters are all about, so when I saw this Gazelle for a reasonable price I jumped on it. Carbon next?
The ride is interesting. It is amazing how they are all so different. This one has the shortest most compact rear triangle of any of my bikes, but also the longest toptube, 60cm. The result is a fast and swift accelerator that climbs effortlessly, but with a soft and wobbly front end. I haven't done any high speed descents on it yet, but I'm not sure if I look forward tp it. Can barely ride it hands free without crashing! The wheel base is still a short 100cm.
Some efforts at finding out more about this model have been mostly unsuccessful. Any input?
The seller, which is a well known European bike author, claimed it was custom built of Reynolds 753 for a PDM team mechanic, but the frame has no tubing decals. So an interesting mind game to figure it all out, but likely never will.
It is the youngest bike in my growing stable. I wanted to see what deep-V rims, dual pivot brakes and brifters are all about, so when I saw this Gazelle for a reasonable price I jumped on it. Carbon next?
The ride is interesting. It is amazing how they are all so different. This one has the shortest most compact rear triangle of any of my bikes, but also the longest toptube, 60cm. The result is a fast and swift accelerator that climbs effortlessly, but with a soft and wobbly front end. I haven't done any high speed descents on it yet, but I'm not sure if I look forward tp it. Can barely ride it hands free without crashing! The wheel base is still a short 100cm.
Some efforts at finding out more about this model have been mostly unsuccessful. Any input?
The frame has Goldline decals but Goldline did not exist in 1992.
I did the same with my Gazelle AA Special Champion Mondial from 1994.
It got the appearance of the Gazelle Special Goldline from 2001.
I could show a picture of it.
Regards,
Jouke
07-29-12, 06:51 PM
#621
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Ok, ok, ok... I see the debate already died, and all the better for it. I didnt mean to get the definite answer, but sort of an idea, a hunch or a feeling from the Liefhebbers, in the same notion as "BMW is better than Mercedes" and so on. But if such a thing is impossible - lets focus on something actually interesting: Since we obviously already are operating in murky waters: Is it possible to plant the flag on the Koga-Miyatas? They keep popping up, but do not seem entirely welcome... I happen to have one orange 1976-ish Pro Racer with black Dura Ace/Crane component in the basement that very much deserves an identity...
And curiosty number two: The three crosses on the Prestos - I happened to spot them also on the emblem on the back of my sons Ajax football shirt - is this some Amsterdam thing? And then - what do they mean?
And curiosty number two: The three crosses on the Prestos - I happened to spot them also on the emblem on the back of my sons Ajax football shirt - is this some Amsterdam thing? And then - what do they mean?
07-30-12, 03:00 AM
#623
Senior Member
I think you do not see them often in the Dutch bike topic for the same reason you do not see Concorde overhere. It is a kind of hybrid of international colaboration. The Koga-Miyata frames give you the impression of a Japanese frame (the Miyata part), while the Concordes look Italian. There is certainly a substantial part Dutch DNA involved, but so far this topic tends to be on in Holland put together and painted frames with typical Dutch characteristics.
07-30-12, 03:12 AM
#624
Senior Member
Or SAAB is better than Volvo. This kind of discussions are in 1st instance present in the home countries or at least when the communities are omnipresent enough to evoke such a fierce argument. Perhaps the Dutch bike community is too small or too much a selection of connaisseur to splinter further.
07-30-12, 03:23 AM
#625
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Perhaps. But is Dutch better than Belgian? 
