Newie from Norway
 

Hi all!

Im a 30-something from hilly Norway with a new won facination for the good old pedalhorse. My colleague just got hooked on fixed gear bikes. He pulled me in, but im lost on old racers. More specifically the Gitane bikes. Dont ask me why. The Italians are nicer, and I generally like italian design and food and cars and stuff, but im looking for quirky french winners.

I want a bike to take out for a ride every now and then, but Im no serious rider. I currently have a Spezialized Rockhopper comp from the last years of the steelframe years, back in 96. Alu frames was on the market, of course, but my good salesman said that the value of steel frames was so much better. I bought his arguments, and the bike, and have kept the bike close to my heart ever since. I rides like a dream, and I love it. I wil never rid of it. So as you can tell, Im a sucker for the sleek old steelframes, and like and master some mechanics work.

Now Id like to get out on the road, but the alu and carb-monsters is not my cup of gin. Yet. So, im looking for hi-end steel at bargain prices. And I need som help to get going. Thats why Im here...

I had my eye on something I thougt was a Gitane TdF from 84, which people rave about, that is put out for sale at the norwegian equivalent of eBay. It had the chrome forks and red paint and all, and it was going at 400$. But I believe I have called its "bluff". The crankset is more lowend, its fixed up with weinmann brakes, and the braketube does not "dive" into the top tube of the frame. Im in disgusted sorrow, thoug I havent actually seen the bike and tried it - it might suit me just fine, but the price doesnt seem right any more.

So I found another Gitane, but this is a mystery. It seems older, the seller claims the frame is stiff and light. It has been painted, I think, and later fitted with Shimano 105 gear and krankset. The pics dont tell much, exept the one from the front. The headset seems old. The one decal on it is on the headset, and Im guessing mid to late 70ies. The rims seem original. I think it is very exiting, though it looks like ****, as a little fixup project, given it fix me? Again the asking price is around the 400$ mark - a bit steep. I want to make sure this is a good frame, Reynold 531, or equal. Three Qs:

What can i look for to determine its original quality?
Is there any way to identify a Reynold 531 frame?
What should I fit on it?
Any other tips on what would fit my needs for functional racer and a little fixup project?

Hi steinbra, I've moved your thread to a spot that ought to get some incisive comments from the folks who know!

Welcome to BikeForums :D .

East Hill

Weigh it.

You can use a kitchen scale. It looks like a medium-sized frame -- 57 to 60 cm cranks center to top of seat tube. Remove everything except the pressed-on races of the headset and fork (you should tear everything down, clean, inspect and relubricate anyway).

If the frame and fork together weigh less than 3 kg, then it's most likely good-quality butted tubing. My 531C 57 cm Raleigh frame weighs 2015 g in this state, while the fork weighs 832 g. A Motobecane Team Champion (Columbus SL) 60 cm frame I have weighs 2080 + 698, while a double-butted 58 cm Nishiki weighs 2175 + 748.

Often steerer tubes (the upper part of the fork) are marked with the tubing manufacturer's name or logo. If your bike's been repainted, then perhaps someone was lazy and painted over the tubing decal, which may still be on the frame; look for it.

From this great distance (you need to take photos that show less of your garage, and more of the bike's details), it looks like it has fairly nice components. If they're in OK shape, clean everything up and start riding. Change things incrementally, if you've got the bug to do that. It looks like the bike has sew-up (tubular) tires. That's great if you like those; the tires are more expensive than clinchers, but changing them would cost quite a bit (rims, possible spokes, hubs, building labor), and there's no real reason to do that unless the rims are severely bent and can't be trued.

If it's indeed a French frame, then it probably has a French threaded bottom bracket and steerer. The BB cups should be marked with the threading: 35 x 1 = French or Swiss (the latter is left-hand threaded on the right side); 36 x 24tpi = Italian (right-hand threaded both sides, like French); 1.370 x 24tpi = British. If the frame has a serial number anywhere, then the location and the (alpha)numeric sequence are other clues. Design of the lugs at head, seatpost and BB, dropout manufacturer (stamped in dropouts), design of the fork crown, and the components themselves (both manufacturer, model, and any datecodes that may be stamped on them) are other clues.

Do your homework, take detailed photos, and post them, please. There aren't many bikes that can't be fairly well identified here.

French bikes are great. Never owned a Gitane, but you can't go wrong there. Another possible method for determining tube construction is by measuring the seat post diameter. This, combined with the outside diameter of the seat tube (better check if it's metric sized) can give you an idea. The one caveat is that some makers put reinforcment inserts in the seat tube resulting in a lower number than expected. But if it's in the high range you can be fairly certain that at leas the three main tubes are of nice stuff.

Have fun!

Karl

I sure can't ID it from those 2 pics, (and it doesn't look like either Gitane I have owned) but if the seller went to the trouble of putting "Gitane" on the headtube after the respray, it probably is one. Afterall, if he wanted to produce a fake he'd likely put Colnago or Cinelli decals on it...that's what fakes around here feature. If you get a close look at it, perhaps something in this website would help you identify it:
http://www.gitaneusa.com/catalogues02.asp
Stephan has catalogues and pics from several decades, and he's usually helpful about answering questions. FWIW, $400 is a bit steep for a Gitane (even with 531 frame) with home paint job and replacement 105 components (maybe not in Norway, but in my 'hood), I'd keep hunting for a better one or a better price.

Wow, thanks for all the fantastic tips. I dont actually have it yet, so weighing it on a kitchen scale would be tricky. I was looking for tips on what to look for when going over to check it out. The pics are from the add on finn.no (norways eBay, exept from the bidding). Ill try to get a better price. I cant imagine i would have to get into a bidding contest for it.

If I buy it, ill post pictures of better quality and read more fantastic knowledge from you guys. Thanks again!!

Is that true? I've never seen/heard of a quality bike with a reinforcement insert in the seat tube. I think that the variation in required seatpost diameter is a result of

a) the thickness of the tubing used -- some tubing manufacturers used single butted tubing on the seat tube (meaning that the top of the tube as constructed would be thinner rather than thicker gauge. Or they recommended single butted for smaller frames, and made double-butted available for larger frames (Reynolds). And some mfgrs (Columbus, Tange) seemed to use DB tubing for seat tubes.

b) French bikes have incrementally smaller outside diameter tubing -- even metric sizing rather than Imperial. So while an English or Italian frame would have a 28.6 mm OD seat tube, a French frame would have 28 mm OD (and take a correspondingly smaller diameter seatpost.

So, Raleigh 531 frames might take a seatpost 26.4 or 26.6 mm if built in France, while an English/Italian bike built with tubing having similar wall thickness (but Imperial sized) would take a 27.0 or 27.2 mm post.

the only high-end bike that I've ever seen to use a reducing insert in the seat tube is the Cinelli with the classic "fastback" seat cluster they pioneered: these will have a 26.2mm post, (and that's due to the extra material that Cino required in the top of the tube to create his signature stay attachments). There may be others that use a "collar" in the same place if they copied the Cinelli style fastback or made a variation of it, but the most widely known copy, the Windsor Pro, was notable because they did NOT add the extra sleeve, and that's one way to tell a Windsor-wannabe from a true Cinelli.

All I can tell you is that I've seen this happen in several threads on this BB. Definitely it was done and not just by Cinelli. You'll notice I also mentioned metric tubing in my post above ^^

Karl

I never bought that one, but I phoned the seller and he confirmed it had a respray before he bought it(he sold it in as a good thing). He had no clue if it was actually a Gitane, or what it looked like before.

I did go for an old dutch RIH frame that I built up. It can be seen in a seperate thread.

Thanks for all the tips.