one more clue (don't know if it's been mentioned yet) Raleigh would most likely use their proprietary threading on the BB and the steerer: 26tpi instead of the more common 24tpi. Pull off the headset locknut (much easier that the BB) and measure the steerer with a thread gauge, or just compare to a known 24tpi locknut. Don't know what pre-Raleigh Carlton would have used, but I'm pretty sure Falcon never had 26 tpi threading.
Edit :I just looked at the pics (why do I do this 2nd and not first?) and it does not look like a Grand Prix, plus given the cotterless BB and that headset I'm almost positive you have standard 24tpi threading. It also looks a bit better that low-end, despite the stamped dropouts and forkends: I wouldn't be surprised if it's partially 531 albeit maybe straight-gauge...strip the paint and look carefully for the faint Reynolds stampings.

Now I looked at the catalog and details of the Gran Sport: some stuff matches your frame, but the braze-ons spec'd do not...still, it's in the ballpark AFA general quality level and perhaps vintage.

reynolds stampings..
 

Hi unworthy, where might the reynolds stampings be on the tubes? Also, I don't have a thread gauge -and this may sound naive, but could I just count an inch worth of thread?

One detail that doesn't fit the Gran Sport theory is the 26.8mm seat post. I'm fairly sure those earlier Raleighs would have had 25.4-26.2mm posts (or at least the ones I've had did, particularly the ones that were straight-gauge Reynolds 531). That's the size of standard Japanese cromo framesets of the 70s and 80s. Maybe that BB oiler hole is something someone drilled later on?!

Neal

most of the braze ons were cut off at some point. I measured an inch of thread on the steerer and counted 26-27 threads per inch. Also remember the plastic oil port was only from 1961-1964, then apparently done away with.

Yeah, you certainly could if your eyesight is better than mine ;). I notice that you say your frame has had some of the braze-ons ground away, but you can check to see if the braze-on *locations* match up with what the catalog states: you should see remnants of BB cable guides and a shifter band stop on the the down tube, plus the top tube cable nubs. Main thing I see is the Gran Sport catalog picture does not seem to show the nice curved rear brake cable stop that yours most def has got. Perhaps yours is just a year-or-two later model. Reynolds stampings (if you have them) will *generally* show up on the steering column and close to the headlugs on the top and down tubes, but they are very small and lightly stamped, often cut off if the tubes are shortened or filed/ground away prior to painting. Seems more likely that, if a Gran Sport, it had Hi-tensile steel tubes, not 531.

well, I'm not 100% sure seatpost is 26.8 - someone told me the SR Laprades came that standard size.

well, given the apparent 26tpi on the steerer but the cotterless BB and 26.8 seatpost...I'm flumoxed! This mystery has to go to somebody far more versed in Raleigh minutia than me...sorry :o

ha! well thank you very much for putting in some time to help solve this riddle! more puzzle pieces are what we need. Alex

maybe bb isn't original?

I can see there were definately gear shifters on down tube(also, theres a little raised triangle where they go) and there are remnants of cable guides and other braze ons on the down tube and right side top of BB.

Take a close look at that seatpost; it probably has its diameter stamped on it. I have a couple of them that say 27.2. Right now, there are 26.0, 26.8 and 27.0 sizes on ebay! No doubt they made a whole range of sizes.

I only have american ruler - seatpost diameter measures exactly one inch, exactly. Its really scratched up, and I looked closely and thoroughly - coudn't see a size/number.

so seatpost is 25.4 mm.. just as Neal was saying the earlier raleighs had with possible straight gauge reynolds 531 tubing.

That's not the Raleigh cable stop on the back. Similar, but not the same. The serial number is not Raleigh, and the fork has a Nervex crown (I think the lugs may be Nervex as well), which I don't think Raleigh supplied in that time period. Could be wrong. Those dropouts look old school. Like mid-60's or earlier. That's consistent with the BB oiler. Plus it's an oiler, not a grease fitting, which seems later. But the lugs seem a bit later. My guess is early 60's. Here's a shot showing the Raleigh cable stop for comparison:

http://www.matthias.org/raleigh/DSC_5057.html

Karl

Karl, raleigh did use nervex lugs in the 60's.. and 70's I think, but they seem to be alot fancier/detailed than mine... and usually chrome. I would like to think they are, and that the tubing IS 531.. but not sure. You're right, I think the BB oiler does tell us it's mid 60's or earlier. Also my cable stop is distinctive, different from any raleighs.. but then again the 3 hole triangle configuration on head tube is perfectly raleigh... and now I'm perfectly confused.

some '68 raleigh carltons had straight gauge 531 and nervex lugs.. and stamped dropouts.. but not plastice bb oilers.

Yeah, but who other than Raleigh used 26 tpi threading? If this frame has non-Raleigh (Nervex?) lugs and crown, it seems to me other non-Raleigh braze-ons wouldn't be out of the question.

The 25.4 seat post is consistent with a hi-ten steel frame.

I think you have this, in Venetian Blue:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...gran-sport.gif

Have a look at this guy's '61 Gran Sport photoset:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jwright...7594494565758/

No rear brake bridge and not quite the same lugs.

Neal

I'm with you on that gran sport - everything, including the ventian blue I found, matches... except for the chrome tipped forks, which seemed included on all gran sports.

what do mean! the lugs are identical. Looks like the same color I found underneath too. Well maybe someone at the factory felt special that day and put the curved, brazed cable bridge on my frame for fun.

I'd love to get all those original parts/components.

Neal, Thanks a lot for finding and posting that.. gives me hope that it belongs.. has a real family(tearing up)

Here's a Coventry-Eagle headbadge (apparently only two holes)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...oventry004.jpg
From this thread
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=173220

And another one
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...agle_badge.jpg

And a Raleigh
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...ge_raleigh.jpg

When I get home, I will measure the rivet spacing on my Nottingham-built Raleigh.

The oil port on the BB of the orange Falcon is metal, and more like a zerk fitting, with a spring-loaded ball, I think (it seems to be stuck). You can still buy metal oil ports with the spring-loaded cover plate from McMaster-Carr -- don't know if the thread would be correct. I have a couple of them, since I like to use oil rather than grease on everything except the headset (and maybe I'll do that too, someday, at least for the bottom).

One last thing: I would not assume that it's a low-end frame just because it doesn't have forged dropout ends. Those look thicker than the stamped plates used by Raleigh and Peugeot in later years. If you want to know if it's a lightweight, then weigh it. Frame and fork (without anything mounted except the fixed races for headset) would be under 3 kg for a double-butted tubing frame. By that standard, the orange Falcon is not a lightweight, but it's very nicely crafted, which is why I like it. I believe that it has a fully chromed fork (or at least the crown forging and the socks) too, with a copper base (it's peeling).

Ok, that does look more like it. Interesting that Raleigh did supply Nervex earlier on, as well. At least the fork crown is for sure, don't know for sure about the lugs.

Karl

Yeah, HIS has no rear brake bridge... but he gives a color scan of the 1962 catalog where there clearly IS a brake bridge.

thanks for finding and posting those head badges.. I love that sinister looking coventry eagle, beautiful I think.