:D Thanks!

It's not so much the standover height as the clearance under the brake bridge. On most 700C bikes you can't put tires beyond a certain size on the bike without either rubbing the fork or making clearance too tight for fenders.

As far as I can tell the only real difference is that to design a 700C bike to have the same clearance and wide tires, you end up with a very tall fork and associated frame geometry. You are limited to the same brake selection as 650B would use because there are only so many long reach brakes today. You slightly lower rolling resistance than 650B. What you don't have is as desirable a frame geometry because of the accommodations made for tires and fenders and the tall fork/rear triangle. I think that's what it comes down to. With 650B you can have nice frame geometry, just like a normal 700C bike and still maintain a cushier ride and fenders.

Karl

I absorb road by riding properly, which means a good, flexible, moderate road bike position, on a good, steel road bike that has some inherent flexibility (a combination of frame, set, wheels, etc.), and not riding it like I'm a lump on the saddle, plus not inflating the tires rock hard (no need to do this on any bike). I'm fine with whatever works for you, but personally, I think the "I get there faster because I'm more comfortable" idea is a crock of rationalized bull. For everything you can say a 650B-equipped bike is better at, a 700c or 26 inch wheeled hybrid type bike would be even better. Just put drop bars on it if you want those. It would be a lot cheaper. Not as much status symbol value or cachet, though, and no business value for anybody either.

Ok, I've been out of town and not reading this thread. The first statement, well, that's your opinion. It's good that we can all have them and frankly I'm glad that not everything works for everyone because I enjoy the different options. But, please defend that second statement. On the face it's just bald opinion and nothing else. Cool if it's your opinion, but let's not pretend it's a fact.

Cheers,
Karl

Tis greed not logic my friend. GP wants boutique prices but mass market distribution. Which equals huge profits for him. Sounds like he just joined the capitalist society.

I believe 650b has it's place & i hope it lives on. I found an old GT bike with 700d sized wheels. 700d is (almost) exactly the same size as 650b. The bike is a great ride for broken pavement or gravel road. I take it when i go camping. Would a 26" wheel do the same thing just as well, Yes. I also own a 26" wheeled road tandem with 28-mm tires. Is it a worse ride than a 700c bike, No. Wheel sizes from 24" diameter to 28" all get you there equally well. If you can use a 650b to save an otherwise useless frame thats reason enough to keep it around! Why the argument?

I don't own any, but I think it'll be around for a while.
Reasoned thusly: Oil is likely to stay at or over $100 /bbl. The price of asphalt, according to this article from July's Denver Business Journal (and others, that popped up on le goog), is very sensitive to the price of oil. Around here some county highway departments are deferring maintenance on back roads or beginning to discuss converting them to gravel or dirt.
Failing that, it may be realized that cement provides less rolling resistance than pavement, and sections of state & federal highways may be converted to sectioned concrete - just like the last time (back in the 70's). Thumpthumpthump...

So... The guy who wants to train on deserted roads but still ride a raceworthy bike, may very well find himself buying a set of long reach brakes and 650B wheels and save the "good" wheels for actual racing. Nobody's really going to put a lot of dirt road miles on $1000 wheelsets with 140 psi tires. 650B (or 650A, for that matter) makes sense, as you ought to be able to run a much wider tire than you would with 700C, yet still use the same frame. My understanding is that some of the 650B proponents use them extensively on gravel and fire roads.

The argument about comfort presumes a certain level of maintenance on the roads in question. Should that road become semi-permanently awash in chip seal or becomes a series of cement slabs, narrow 700C tires will become the boutique size.

At least that's what my magic 8 ball is sayin' tonight. Check tomorrow for an entirely different perspective.

I also have an GT bike it's called the Continuum, it's a great bike with 700D wheels which I've fitted with 650B tires. They were a tight fit but they went on, also they are a little difficult to get off but I found some plastic coated steel tire levers that work great. I plan on some day to pick up a 650B wheelset but for now just the tires work ok. So I also hope they stay around for awhile.

Brad W.

I still don't quite get the anger that some folks display over 650b. I mean, it's really no skin off your ass if I ride different size wheels than you, so maybe some of you need to calm down a bit.

I have. It is a nice tire.

WOW, that pretty much sums it up for me. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Why all the hostility?

It's no fun if some of the lemmings don't go into the main stream?

OK, cheap shot, but probably some other forces at work:
1) the sense of accomplishment in chasing down a guy on a fat tired bike is diminished
2) the sense that a 650B tire displaces another 700C choice
3) an unwillingness to acknowledge that not everyone enjoys cycling the same way or for the same reasons

It ultimately stems from issues involving synthetic chamois in lycra shorts. :D

+100

IMHO... 650b is the bees knees.

+1 !

650B Envy? :innocent: I myself have no issues. 650B is just another choice. Unfortunately most bikes in that take the size are boutique bikes like Rivendell, or Velo Orange and I really can't afford one; consequently, I go for bikes that the wheels are common sized: 700C and 26" 559. I wouldn't mind owning a 650B just so I can discern what all the hullabaloo is about.

+1 again.

If you find 650B to your liking, excellent. If you don't, that's fine just the same.

That said, regardless of one's preferences, may I suggest not to contest personal preference in rim sizes. Nobody cares for the pushy sort, and there is no point in trying to change others' opinions if they have no interests in changing.

-Kurt

The bottom line of 650b for me: I can get a very wide, very light, very high quality tire without toe clip overlap. I don't know how else to achieve that. Yes, I could do it with 700c if I went with a really whacky frame geometry, and yes, it would be perfectly feasible to do it with 26" if anybody made the kind of tire I want in that size. And yes, I could "learn to live" with overlap, but with 650b I don't need to.

Now, that does not mean that everyone else should do it, or that 650b is better or worse than any other diameter, and it certainly doesn't mean that there is any kind of magic in 650b. It's just the easiest practical way for me to get what I am personally looking for.

Why people want to argue that remains beyond me.

Actually, lots of C&V bike are easy conversions.


Lots of MTB conversions: http://650b.com/

A very early site that hasn't been updated in a while, still good though: http://www.freewebs.com/650b/

This is probably the best site IMO: http://www.bikeman.com/content/view/1010/33/

More MTB action: http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=135

Lots of pics for those who can't read :) http://www.flickr.com/groups/650b/

Very interesting history: http://www.mtbtrailreview.com/blog/h...-of-650b/650b/

Why should you get one: http://mountainbike.about.com/od/buy...50B_wheels.htm

More history and a good site: http://www.cyclos-cyclotes.org/650/h...e_650_ang.html

Those should get you to see there is no reason to be envious.

Tim

Besides Rivendell and Harris, are there other sellers of 650b wheelsets? Are they more something one needs to get made to order? Anyone know if there's a common standby for 650b wheels?

This fairly obscure listing at Bike Parts USA is for a set of 650B wheels, roughly $100 shipped: Sun CR18 rims and Shimano Nexave hubs. Rear is a cassette hub spaced for 135mm. I have a set on my Kogswell, and have no complaints.

http://www.bikepartsusa.com/bikepart...ategory=search

Neal

Thanks for that. So the listing is actually for a set of wheels? The obscurity of the listing actually extends to the description :/.

Yup, it's for a set of wheels. I cut and pasted that link from my receipt!

Neal

Popular culture says that all road bikes must be "racing bikes". We are not all Walter Mitty. A 650b is a great choice that would benefit allot of people. Egos get in the way.

I had never seen 650b as a MTB wheel size until the above links, so thanks. Has anyone here done a 26" to 650b conversion? I'm wondering how the canti brakes work with the larger wheels. If that could be sorted out, I'm sure I could find an old hardtail-hardnose MTB to convert into a poor man's 29'er (about the only bike missing from my stable.) Might even be worth doing a little brazing to move the studs.

Most of the guys on MTBreview say it doesn't work at all. But, they're all using disc brakes. Which work fine no matter what size wheel you use.

Tim

Curiously enough... the 650B conversion that works best is one that uses a typical late 80's/early 90's steel frame criterion type bike, 700C wheels, with very tight brake clearances. ONce the 650B wheel is on, there is enough clearance for fatter tires, fenders, and the needed brake reach is workable (there are Tektro brakes with long reach caliper style... otherwise, some old Centre pulls work).

Some cool visual examples of quick road bike 650B converts:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images3...-3IMG_5991.jpg
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images2...RightFront.jpg
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images2...-1rb1.650b.jpg