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Suntour versus Campy

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Suntour versus Campy

Old 09-23-22, 06:41 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Mmmmm, hmmmm...... next thing you'll be telling us is that Delta brakes work.

But seriously, I have to admit I've never ridden the high end Campagnolo stuff from the same period as when Suntour was the best. I really should find something equipped with it and give it a try. If it truly does feel better to use than my beloved Superbe stuff that will make for one orgasmic ride. Dang it, I don't need another bike, but now I'm curious.....
Speaking of Delta brakes, beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. To me they look like a dude in overalls(from about mid spine) laying pipe to the mounting hole on the fork. Maybe that was the design intent. What do I know though, I think a Campy NR RD resembles a marine invertebrate.

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Old 09-23-22, 07:18 AM
  #102  
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@Drillium Dude - Jeff, were those Superbe Pro parts?
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Old 09-23-22, 07:20 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Speaking of Delta brakes, beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. To me they look like a dude in overalls(from about mid spine) laying pipe to the mounting hole on the fork. Maybe that was the design intent. What do I know though, I think a Campy NR RD resembles a marine invertebrate.
I think they are gorgeous and work great when set up right.


Everyone should have at least one bike with Delta's on it.


Oh crap, wait..... I'm supposed to be playing the Suntour fanboy in this thread. Please ignore the above....
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Old 09-23-22, 07:24 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
I think they are gorgeous and work great when set up right.


Everyone should have at least one bike with Delta's on it.


Oh crap, wait..... I'm supposed to be playing the Suntour fanboy in this thread. Please ignore the above....
I can hear the dualing banjos now...........and the "Squeal like a pig." Or, "Spider caught a couple of flies."
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Old 09-23-22, 10:59 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
@Drillium Dude

Jeff, were those Superbe Pro parts?
No, the derailleurs were Cyclones and the brakeset was Superbe 4700.

And, just to pile on with the fun, I suggest an alternate title to this thread: "Tell Me You Can't Afford Campy Without Telling Me You Can't Afford Campy".



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Old 09-23-22, 11:51 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post

Mmmmm, hmmmm...... next thing you'll be telling us is that Delta brakes work.
Another good example of a component many claim doesn't work as it should. However, I have no practical experience with Deltas, so can't comment one way or another.

DD
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Old 09-23-22, 12:02 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
...

The top-of-the-line Suntour derailleurs probably had solid pivot pins, though, since they were such exact copies of the Campy parts, at least for a while in the early days, many of the Suntour and Campy small parts were interchangeable.
Can you refresh my memory? What SunTour derailleurs were exact copies of Campy parts?

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Old 09-23-22, 12:13 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
No, the derailleurs were Cyclones and the brakeset was Superbe 4700.

And, just to pile on with the fun, I suggest an alternate title to this thread: "Tell Me You Can't Afford Campy Without Telling Me You Can't Afford Campy".



DD
Ok so now you've got to try Superbe shifting and I've got to try NR/SR and report back.

Curious about the brakes too though. I'm running the CB-4700 on my Team USA "gravel" rider and the brakes seem plenty strong with the old Fulcrum Racing 1 rims on there. I was worried about the original pads at first but they're doing just fine. Maybe I have low standards? Although the old Modolo's and the sidepulls on the Peugeot I recently worked on were scary bad.
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Old 09-24-22, 11:54 AM
  #109  
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I never read about broken Campagnolo tension springs.
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Old 09-24-22, 02:30 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
I never read about broken Campagnolo tension springs.
Having had two lower pivot springs break on SunTour Cyclones (and on one SunTour canti brake), I now look at them with a bit of concern. I've also got a few bikes with Campy NR or SR derailleurs, and no problems there. The SunTours have a ton more miles on them, and in all conditions, so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.



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Old 09-24-22, 02:43 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
No, the derailleurs were Cyclones and the brakeset was Superbe 4700
I found the BA-SB00-S, Superbe Pro calipers to be nearly equivalent to DP brakes on the Trek 760. In fact, I believe they are better than the Chourus Monoplanar
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Old 09-24-22, 02:44 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I think there's a lot of BS, brand snobbery, etc out there in the C & V world. For instance, most of my bikes have friction bar end shifters. I've got them in Simplex, Campy, Suntour and Shimano. The overwhelming favorite in the C & V community is Suntour. I wonder how many of these Suntour bar end fan boys despise Campy RD shifting? They both have the same type of feel. The Campy RDs are described as "heavy, clunky and slow," but the Suntour bar ends are great because of the dependability and "positive feedback." That's BS! Put them together and you have a bicycle that shifts like an 18 wheeler.

I apologize for the rant.
I'm a Suntour bar end fan-boy and I could never set up my campy bar ends with anywhere near the finesse of the Suntours. The ratcheting makes all the difference.
I also love my NR/SR rear derailleurs. Consistent, solid, dependable so they deserved their place at the top of the racing food chain, imo.

My fave frankenbuild was a 90's C-dale R500 with Suntour bar cons and an SR rear, Record front. Fast as a scared cat and the light weight meant you didn't have to shift as much. Like the hard men of the past peletons.
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Old 09-24-22, 02:50 PM
  #113  
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My first road bike way back 50 years ago had Campagnolo bar end shifters.
shifting was vague.
I went to down tube shifters a year later.
today I might try index shift cable housing and different cables. I would expect improvement.
the ratcheting pawl of the Suntour really reduced the friction in the system.
many sprinters really liked them.
Shimano had a counter sprung lever that some liked.
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Old 09-24-22, 03:54 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post

Curious about the brakes too though. I'm running the CB-4700 on my Team USA "gravel" rider and the brakes seem plenty strong with the old Fulcrum Racing 1 rims on there. I was worried about the original pads at first but they're doing just fine. Maybe I have low standards? Although the old Modolo's and the sidepulls on the Peugeot I recently worked on were scary bad.
Naw, you don't have low standards

For me, what I was able to detect in direct comparison was that the calipers seemed to flex more compared with the Campy Record calipers. Even when I originally ran the Suntour calipers with a pair of Campy Record levers, I felt it. The feeling was much the same with Superbe brake levers. Also, the pads! Hard as rocks, sounded like a banshee wail when I applied any modicum of pressure - even after I sanded them down and chamfered the trailing edges. I purchased a second replacement pair; same thing. They really were the squealiest brakes I've ever encountered; who knows, perhaps a modern set of pads would've helped, but I took the easy way out and moved them along instead!

DD
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Old 09-24-22, 05:03 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by txvintage View Post
On my daily riders it's either Shimano or Suntour, but mostly Shimano. That's not by design, but more of coincidence.

That being said, on certain bikes, Campy rules. I have one full Campy fitted bike and it just oozes soul and artristy. I don't ride it very often, but it's my Shwag Wagon, without a doubt. It's my shameless indugence to embracing my inner "OCP".

The one thing I will give Campy over any other componenet is the ability to rebuild it. I have an early set of Ergo brifters that are 8 speed. I've always known I can rebuild them if needed, but I just found out I convert them to 9 sp for a mere $15 more in parts. It may even be possible to go to 10 sp, but I need some confirmation on that.
That’s right, the 9 speed conversion is very easy and involves simply replacing the 8 speed indexing piece with the 9 speed. You might as well replace the springs with new ones while you have things apart.

The 8 to 10 conversion is *possible* but requires much more extensive surgery. The center bolt is of a different diameter, so that needs to be replaced with a 10 speed unit, and of course everything that goes on it ( that is everything inside the unit). Jan Ullrich and Mario Cipollini were famous in the ten speed era for preferring the old pointy lever shape and had old levers hot Rodded to ten speed by the team mechanics.
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Old 09-24-22, 05:07 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
For me, what I was able to detect in direct comparison was that the calipers seemed to flex more compared with the Campy Record calipers. Even when I originally ran the Suntour calipers with a pair of Campy Record levers, I felt it. The feeling was much the same with Superbe brake levers. Also, the pads! Hard as rocks, sounded like a banshee wail when I applied any modicum of pressure - even after I sanded them down and chamfered the trailing edges. I purchased a second replacement pair; same thing. They really were the squealiest brakes I've ever encountered; who knows, perhaps a modern set of pads would've helped, but I took the easy way out and moved them along instead!
Interesting. I have Suntour brakes on one bike, admittedly I am VERY late to the party for using any Japanese components on bikes. They seem to stop well enough but, despite toe-in, a lot of squeal. And Kool-Stop pads so it's not the pads. Hmm, flexing calipers creating some oscillation under load and thus squeal? Not that I care, squealing brakes as not a problem for me (long-time Mafac user); "Loud Brakes Save Lives".

The Suntour derailleurs seem to shift fine -- will they hold up for 50 years like a NR derailleur? At my age... I'll never know.
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Old 09-24-22, 05:34 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by El Chaba View Post

The 8 to 10 conversion is *possible* but requires much more extensive surgery. The center bolt is of a different diameter, so that needs to be replaced with a 10 speed unit, and of course everything that goes on it ( that is everything inside the unit). Jan Ullrich and Mario Cipollini were famous in the ten speed era for preferring the old pointy lever shape and had old levers hot Rodded to ten speed by the team mechanics.
I didn't know that - fascinating! Especially that two pros were going for the modern gearing and 'vintage' look. Although I'm sure in their cases it was all about comfort of familiarity.

Personally, I think the original 'pointy' Ergopower shape is the most iconic, and not just because that's what's on my Davidson - I chose them for that bike because I felt that way from the start. Plus, they are the last with the forged alloy bodies.

Wonder if I might be able to hotrod an 8-speed pair into 10-speed? Something to think about, maybe. Hmmm...

DD
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Old 09-25-22, 04:18 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
Having had two lower pivot springs break on SunTour Cyclones ……… I now look at them with a bit of concern.
I’ve also had two break, at the same point. Fixed both and both are still in service. Others have too. Search around. I submit the key is to not seek a 90° bend on the new tab. A few degrees less works just as well and less metal stress. I have 3 Cyclones in the fleet and they all serve me well.
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