old-school as good as hi-tech?
 

I've seen more people on their bikes, and it was nice to see some old-style 10-speeds out there, which is what I have. I've been shopping to upgrade but maybe I don't need to. Anybody out there riding their old-school 10-speed with the big boys on their hi-tech gear?

It's not what you have but what you do with it right?

You, the engine, will make more difference than which bike or what era components you have on it. But, many advancements have made it easier to be fast. Lighter wheels, quicker and more precise shifts, more choices in rear gears, and better brakes all can help make you faster.

If you are competitive, you cannot afford to give up the small but real advantages of modern gear. It can easily be the difference between being on the podium or being an also-ran (make that also-pedal). If you are better than your competitiors you can overcome that difference in the lower categories, but once you advance to a level where the competition are your equals, you put yourself at a signifigant disadvantage.

Of course, if you only ride for enjoyment with a little friendly, informal competition, you should be prefectly OK on vintage equipment, as long as you have a strong will to take the verbal needling you will undoubtedly receive.

I would routinely ride my boom era bicycles or an ATB in club races, until advancing age forced me to resort to more modern equipment to erase the disadvantage of the 20-30 year age difference.

Nice summary, thanks.

I personally prefer older bikes for just enjoyment's sake. It seems hard to find a new steel bike for within a reasonable price range, so I figured I would just get an old one. I like the ride, and I like friction shifting. When it comes to mountain biking, I do however concede to modern equipment and even fat aluminum tubes

You'll never keep up with the pack riding carbon and shifting indexed, on vintage steel. Leave those for us, who appreciate and value them for other reasons ;')

well put. Even on a modernized lugged steel rig weighing in at 22-23lbs I feel the disadvantage over my friends on their sub 15lbs racing machines, but until I start racing AND start to get close to the front of the pack I can't justify the expenditure.

Old school is not as good. But if you are riding for fitness, it really doesn't matter.

I usually ride by myself solely for exercise/fitness. A new modern bike would not be any better for me in that regard.

The thing I like about old school bike is that they have lasted 30-40 years or more. Nothing made in 2009 will be riden in 2050, especially low-end bikes.

When I'm fit I can keep up with the cat. 2s on my '82 Bianchi with Super Record. I honestly don't feel it's any handicap at all on flat roads, although in a criterium with constant shifting I would be at disadvantage. I am sure the bike is a handicap in the mountains, but my beer gut is more of a handicap. I would lose by less on a modern bike, but losing is losing.

Now, some 30 pound POS with gaspipe tubing and components with unpronounceable names is a different story. I do not understand why any enthusiast would ride one of these monstrosities, let alone why anyone could actually be excited about collecting them and writing it up on the internet, but there are lots of things I don't understand. Regardless, I don't think Greg LeMond could keep up with a decent bike rider while riding one.

Actually I dont feel disadvantaged at all riding my own classic bike. I vastly appreciate it for what it is, downtube shifters, lugged steel frame, and single pivot brakes and all. In a way I even feel superior to the so called modern bikes I see on the road. The introduction of 10-speed cassettes is a good inovation, as well as integrated shifting, clipless pedals, and dual pivot brakes, but thats where it ends IMO. As far as steel goes, the pinacle was reached more than a decade ago and I'm happier than a pig in slop just to be able to own and ride something like that.

Of course all of this is perspective. :D

Interesting thread. I took my 86 Gazelle out on the Saturday River Ride for the first time. I got many compliments on it, including from a professional frame builder and a former pro racer. In fact the former pro looked at my bike and said "Wow, I haven't seen a Gazelle in years! Now THAT is a race bike..."

As Six Jours says, it's no disadvantage on a flat road ride. In fact, in a lot of ways the Gazelle is the perfect River Ride bike. The River Ride is flat, fast, on crappy roads with a constant crosswind. The 531c frame soaks up the bad pavement and the box section wheels are strong and steady in a crosswind.

It doesn't accelerate as well as my CF bike so I think it might be a disadvantage in a technical criterium with lots of hammering out of corners. But it flies on the flats.

The frames are way lighter and stiffer, but I believe the components actually got heavier? Case in point my 1988 54cm Schwinn Premis weighed 23.3 pounds. It was bone stock...Tenax frame. Cyclone 7000 indexed with DT shifters, wide suede saddle, etc. My 1985 60cm Super Sport with 9 speed Tiagra and a Terry Ti Fly saddle weighs 24.8 pounds? Frame is Tenax, the only real difference is components/rims and 6 centimeters of frame steel.,,,,BD

The key word in your post is "small." You expend some 85% of your energy fighting air resistance, and another 10% fighting the rolling resistance of your tires. Put state-of-the-art tires and good lightweight wheels on any properly geared mid-to-high-end steel racing frame from the 1980s, and your disadvantage is minuscule. Yes, you may lose that critical few yards which separates third place from fourth, but I could not describe this difference as "significant" on a club ride. The only time I felt my machine was really slowing me down was when I showed up on my 1970 Peugeot UO-8 commuter, complete with handlebar pack, Pletscher mousetrap rear rack, etc. My 10kg Bianchi is light and stiff enough that I refer to it as my "no excuses" bike.

Actually, one of our ride leaders is an Englishman whose large stable includes a 1973 Carlton. He likes Brooks saddles and Campagnolo kit and admires my Capo and my Bianchi. Over the past two years, the number of positive comments I receive has kept climbing. The chief mechanic at one of my local bike shops (Norm Breedlove's "Encinitas Bicycle Retailer") drools over Capo #1, my Bianchi, and, more recently, my old school Schwinn mountain bike.

I strongly believe that the transportation or recreational rider is extremely well served by a steel-framed road bike with friction shift, 32- or 36-spoke wheels, and modern tires and brake cables and pads. These bikes are durable, rugged, beautiful, comfortable, enjoyable, etc., and they hold their value over time.

It depends what kind of old 10-speed you're talking about.

A high quality road bike made of race-quality double-butted chromoly tubing and with decent mid-range to high-end components wasn't exactly the same thing as a 30-35 lb steel department store 10-speed. Once you get down to under 25 lbs, you've got a pretty decent road bike that you can have as much fun riding as anything you can buy today (and especially so if it's from at least the 1980's). Fitness and a good efficient riding position will still make you faster than most people are on their lighter carbon bikes unless they are as fit as you. But most people aren't that fit, no matter how much money they spent on their bike.

I'd be very curious to hear of any fully modernized vintage steel racing bikes. I would think that 19 or even 18 pounds would not be entirely impossible if lightness were the absolute goal and cost not a consideration.

I have a late 1980s titanium frameset. Built up with full period correct Dura-Ace which was still recognizably old school (pre-STI, steel quick release skewers, d/t shifters, and 8-speed cassette on the heavy side) and a brooks saddle Swift saddle at 350 grams, along with heavy training tires and conventionally spoked wheels (32 + 32), it weighs under 20 pounds. I suspect if re-fitted with more modern components with lightness as the goal I could easily drop another 2 or even 3 pounds. No reason not to do so, and it would surely ride just as nicely, but I just like the look of the last of those older style components on that bike.

That frame and fork combined weighs 4.5 pounds. A comparable steel frameset I own from the 1970s, and in the same size (59 cm) weighs under 6 pounds. So, I imagine this too could conceiveably be set up in full modern dress to weigh perhaps 19 to 20 pounds, complete.

I think there is a lot which can be done with a conventional veteran frameset to make it surprisingly light - something which Eddy Mecckx would have sold his soul to race on 35 years ago. The decision not to completely modernize a veteran bike is often a matter of aesthetics for the owner. And, as for cost, the rare vintage parts I've seen on some old bikes could easily pay for a complete new Ultegra or Chorus gruppo. Interesting considerations.

A high-quality older bike's frameset is almost always superior to its components. Other than weight, it is hard to see a substantial benefit to a 21st century frameset. As for weight, I am not sure how I could get my Bianchi much below its current 10 kg., although tubular tires might knock off 250 grams or so, right where it counts.

Mine is close to what you describe. It's just a shade over 20lbs. It has a 10-speed Record/Chorus/Centaur groupset and the wheels are 32 spoke Open Pros on Centaur hubs. I could easily lose a pound with a set of handbuilt tubulars and another with a carbon fork (although it wouldn't be worth the aesthetic loss :)).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18...DSC02729-1.jpg

now I am drooling over the gazelle :love:

very interesting thread, I am new to classic bikes, but have recently started collecting them (to my parent's dismay, even though both of them love my Varsity since it is from their Era). I'm sure that I am younger than alot of the guys here, I'll be 16 in a few days. But back to the topic at hand. I am fine with the performance of my Varsity. The brakes could be better, but they are fine now after I paid $140 to get the bike tuned up (needed new derailers). The other day, I was cruising at about 18mph when some roadie in a superhero costume flew past me. I kept up with him for the next half mile, then I got close enough and saw that it was some old dude ( no offence), Hillclimbing wasn't his his thing and he slowed to a crawl. The look on his face was priceless as I clanked past him on my 40 year old Varsity. So yeah its a bit heavy but its fine for commuting. It even tows my trailer to go and pick up garbage finds.

Long Live the Ten Speed!!!

I love hearing about young whippersnappers getting interested in vintage bicycles, classical music, and numerous cultural assets I want to survive through succeeding generations. I am probably a bit older than you parents (58 tomorrow, on Tullio Campagnolo's birthday), but I have two true Varsity stories you may enjoy.

Following my one-and-only collision with a car, I had my prized Reynolds 531 frame straightened and continued to ride the bike. Shortly after moving to San Diego County, I was climbing a hill, trying to stay ahead of a young kid on a Varsity, when a crack began to propagate around my downtube, just behind the head tube lug. I had to slow down and pedal gently to get home safely.

About a dozen years later, my father-in-law gave me an early 1970s Varsity, which I used for commuting to work. Between the commuter rail station and my office was a 12% grade, on which I passed a certain chap almost daily. After a few weeks of this sort of abuse, he traded in his old klunker on a Specialized Epic, and every time he saw me, he blamed me for the expenditure. I replaced the Varsity with a Peugeot UO-8 of about the same vintage and broke a chainstay four years later. I suspect that would not have happened to the Varsity.

That is freakin' gorgeous, but I am a sucker for red framesets with white head tubes. :) That is one of the few new bikes I have seen which really appeals to me.

I hope your parents realize that you could be doing a lot worse things than collecting bicycles....

At age 15, I had a garage full of bikes, none particularly collectible. I had one "good" bike, a Nishiki. At 16, I got a job, my dream job at the time, working in a bike shop. One more good bike, a restored Italian road bike of doubtful heritage, then they were all gone and I was driving. I didn't start seriously riding again until I was in my early 40's.

So.........don't give it up like I did. I am glad I rediscovered it once again, but sorry that all those non riding years got past me.

Thanks John, you guessed right my parents are 50 and 51

Yeah they don't really have a problem with it. My dad just loves to complain about not having a place to park his car in his garage. I won't GIve it up, and I do work in a bike shop.

Without the heavy cage pedals and bottle cages, this one is an honest to goodness 22.0 pound machine. I haven't weighed it with my SPD SL pedals installed, but 22 is an impressive number considering the large frame size. I haven't weighed all of my bikes yet, but I believe it is the lightest steel framed bike in my garage.,,,,BD

And yes, it rides as good as it looks:D. A shame it only gets ridden on days with a 0% chance of rain.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...byker/SR22.jpg