mkeller234

I recently fixed up this old Norman. Before I took the whole thing apart I photographed it to help me put it back together. There is a clamp for the shift cable to terminate the housing, it was on the crossbar when I got the bike so natually I just put it right back there, the results were positive, it shifts like it should. Then recently I saw a picture of a womens Robin Hood and the same clamp was located on the downtube. Natually I thought I made a mistake, so I tried to move the clamp on my bike. The diameter of the downtube is signifigantly larger than the crossbar and I can not get the clamp to fit unless it was bent. No matter what tube it is mounted on, the pulley redirects it under the chaingaurd. Also, this is a 58 SW 3 speed and the trigger logo is upside down, should it still be mounted like all the others. I have a few pictures of it, so to all the pros out there....Let me know what you think.

John E

I would favor locating the clamp/stop so that the cable emerges axially, which would make the downtube the preferred location, but I cannot explain why your clamp is sized for the top tube. As you noticed, both locations evidently work fine.

rhenning

Be very careful with the SW hub as it had some serious flaws. It was so bad Sturmey Archer withdrew it from production after about one year. The upside down logo was common on bikes in that time frame and earlier. Roger

mkeller234

Yeah, I read an article from Sheldon Browns site about the problems associated with the springless pawls. When I first set it up, it would slip in 3rd gear, so I switched the left and right side pawls. I also use light weight oil in the hub since they suggested it may help. The hub now engages all 3 gears easily, but I still dont trust it enough to stand up out of the seat. I think mine was made later in the SW production run, The dog profile looks like the later one on Sheldon's site and there is a medium sized centering lip. It's fun to toy with, but yeah, I still don't trust it.

sfclearwater

Maybe that clamp you have was originally for a mens style bike. The cable routing for these usually looks like this:



Of course I have seen the pulley in the low position on mens frames too. Does anybody know if the original position were variable or if these variations are just people using what parts they could find when fixing these bikes? (like I did with mine)

nlerner

I would think there would have been a gear cable stop on the downtube originally for the reasons you describe, and those larger sized clamps are readily available. I probably have one in my stash; send me a PM to remind me to look for it.

Neal

wahoonc

Depends on the bike and the year. As a general rule on the mens frames prior to around 1974-5 the pulley was at the top, somewhere around the mid 70's they appear to have moved it to the lower position. FWIW I prefer it at the top on mine...cable stays a lot cleaner. Also the earlier men's frames had a boss for the pulley rather than a clamp on fitting. AFAIK step through (women's) frames have always been routed down low. The upside down shifter is correct. Don't recall the reason why it was done that way, if there even is one.

Aaron

mkeller234

Looks like the upside down logo threw this guy off too. I'm glad I asked before I switched it, that just looks awkward. I have a Bike shop that carries all kinds of 3 speed junk, he may have some good clamps.

Here are some more pics of my 3 speed, see if you guys can see anything else that screams amateur. One thing I did change from these pics is the handlebar position, I moved them to be parallel to the fork crown. The look tilted to far forward in the pics. Let me know, I want to learn. Here is the link to my flickr page:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/3089497...57607601628620

Thanks alot,
Matt

SirMike1983 

Part of the draw of the upside down trigger is that it can be fitted so that it parallels the bottom sides of the grips roughly (lever points downward), and can be used on drop bars nicely too. To do this you'd take that shifter you have and rotate it forward until the writing is right side up and facing you if you were to look at the bicycle head on from the front. You can use it without moving your hands from the grips if you set it up correctly.

As for the cable routing change-- I actually like the low-mount cable path used later on than the earlier, high pulley path.

g-funk

the shifter is meant to be angled down, just above the brake lever. it's much more intuitive as a trigger shifter when you use your trigger finger in a trigger like position. rotate that sucker down 120 degrees or so so that you can read the type from the front of the bike, that's how it's supposed to be, I don't know where that top mounted shifter came from.

I too favor the DT routing however I have always thought that top tobe cable routing is cooler than downtube routing on any bike

Esteban32696

Off subject, but the logo " Western Flyer " on the chainguard, is from a "Western Auto "bike.

rhm

No, not off subject at all! It appears Norman, like Raleigh, made bikes that were distributed by various American companies, including Western Flyer. Somewhere on the internet are pictures of another Norman-made Western Flyer ... I may even have 'em on my hard drive somewhere.

mparker326

I tried the low routing when I built up my homemade 3 speed. Didn't work well as my heel of my big foot kept hitting the cable. Maybe this is why men's 3 speeds are routed high and women's are low?

g-funk

excellent point. top tube routing on a ladies bike would be pretty tricky.......

mkeller234

Yeah, my bike still has the Western Auto tires in nice condition too. I think I know the other Norman Western Flyer that you are refering to. Heres a pic of it, it is a 1958 model and so is mine. Also here is the URL to all the pics of it:

https://crozetmcds.blogspot.com/2008/...ern-flyer.html

Grand Bois

The saddle looks too far forward to me. Do you have the clamp reversed? I see a lot of them like that, so I can't say it's wrong, but it looks wrong to me.

I agonized over the cable routing when I built my three speed. I thought that running it on the down tube was neater, but I ended up running it on the top tube because the clamp hides a flaw in the paint and I wanted to show off the early steel pulley that nlerner sent me.

SirMike1983 

I agree about the downtube route- it has a neatness and cleanness to it. On the other hand that early pulley is quite nice indeed-- much nicer than the later plastic ones in terms of how it looks.

mkeller234

My 58 has a steel pulley, when did they make the switch to plastic?

wahoonc

Somewhere around 1960. The original steel ones show up on Ebay pretty regularly. There are also reproduction ones available.

Aaron

Torchy McFlux

I just worked on a Hercules last week with the same cable routing: Housing stop on toptube, roller at BB on downtube. The cable just looks wrong being away from the tubes like that, but that's the way it is on some of these old bikes. Think of it as an old-timey eccentricty that gives it some character.

Grand Bois

You can get reproduction pulleys here. Click on parts. They don't have the "curious machining marks " you can see in the picture of my original. I have their stainless steel fulcrum sleeve.

https://www.3speedtour.com/

mkeller234

Old-timey eccenticities abound on this bike. I do kind of like how it looks though, my only problem is I am selling the bike, and I figure that may look like a problem to someone.