Who made this frame?
 

My buddy dropped this by to tinker with. There are no serial #'s anywhere. The lugs are finely filed IMO and it has Campy dropouts front and rear. Some notable details are the windows in the lugs which are unlike any I've seen and the stays are filed flat on the ends where they reach the dropouts as are the fork leg ends....
The parts are all over the place as far as make and year of manufacture so I don't think that'll help any. And it is an obvious repaint. Oh ya! The seat post is a 27.2.

Whatcha think?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/...5ee0d89cee.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/...b79cac778e.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/...d5e8614cb1.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/...5d725fa4cd.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/...068cdaba4a.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/...d47fdf14cb.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/...820a812e50.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/...4eed0185ed.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3208/...1f31a108f1.jpg

nice piece of work. Whatcha gonna do wif it?

Not sure yet......It's a bit big for me but the GF can stand over it. I might just flip or trade it depending on what it is.
It has a nice mixed bag of parts that are all virtually new. Superbe brakes, Super mighty cranks, Rigida clinchers with a Phil SS front and Campy NR rear hub, Campy headset, Huret Jubilee shifters, Shimano 600 RD and a Campy FD and pedals......Eclectic mixed bag of stuff.

What size is it? Blankcrows is looking for a ~58cm frame set to build up with modern stuff.

Seat tube is 58cm (C-T).....Not the best frame for a build with "modern" components IMO as it uses clamp on shifters and has no brake cable guides. The only braze-ons are cable guides on the BB and a RD cable stop on the right chainstay.

OK - thanks. It's the right size, but you're right, not what we're looking for (I've been charged with the build:))

It does look nicely made: what's the BB threading?Any rifling in the steerer? Can't tell from the partial shot of the forkblades, but it could be Reynolds "Continental" or Columbus...I'd guess British or North American built based on what's here.

We need full frontal exposure of the frame :)

Just an update.......I measured the BB and it's 70mm. So i guess thats kinda means it's Italian? Also I peaked inside the steer tube and see no rifling......I'll take some more pics when I get some batteries for the camera.

both sides should be right-hand threaded. (rightie-tightie). and nothing but 36 cups should work, of course, if you have some laying around.

Looks like it has a fresh BB in it....Pretty much a complete bike minus seat post and cables.....

Wow! That's nice!!! No idea, but suspect Italian. Happy Christmas!!!

So about what year did brake & shift cable guides along with DT shifter braze-ons become mainstream? I find it odd that this frame has no brake cable guides but does have shift cable guides on the bottom bracket. Maybe they were added when the frame was repainted? The 2 most notable things about this frame to me are that the seat & chainstay ends are filed perfectly square to the dropout as are the ends of the fork blades. Also the lug for the toptube and headtube is strange to me in that the underside point of the lug is as long as the top and has the same tear drop window cutout. Kinda weird....Can anyone point out any other frame builders that used a similar lug set with teardrop windows?

you ask a good question. The lack of brake cable guides sorta says mid to late '70s to me. If it has zero or one bottle cage braze ons, that would make the implication even stronger. This is ratified by the long Campy dropouts. Could be a one-off. The lugwork is actually kind of striking, although it might have worked better on a smaller lug.

In my opinion thats an old italian frame that was modernized or something like in the mid 80's (bb cable guides). In a matter of fact there is a big chance that somebody made that frame in his home and then sold it or gave it away. The non recessed brakes say a little bit.

The only way to know wich type of tubing is it, is listen to them by tapping the tubes

looks a lot like some of these Miyatas:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Jap...ata_KogaTm.htm
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=310517

Wrong dropouts though

pdg series?

Hello! And a Merry X-Mas (or whatever nonsecular holiday you may or may not celebrate...)!

It's interesting that the Koga Miyatas posted above are so similar....
I posted on the CR list about this frame and the response I got is that it's most likely a Losa built Guerciotti, Ives, Monti, Ciprandi, Magni, etc....
Apparently Losa was a factory that built frames for companies that were then relabeled. The frames all bare similarities with some minor differences in lug cutouts.

I hope the gentleman who responded to my CR post doesn't mind me posting a linky to his pics.......
This one is an Ives and looks exactly like my frame:
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...Ives72Red54cm/
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/367961-2/Ives07.jpg
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/367964-2/Ives11.jpg

And a Guerciotti that is very similar:
The dropouts have the same file treatment:
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/...+drop+outs.jpg
Underside of headtube lugs....Same cutouts (the tops are different)
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/...+underside.jpg

So what I know for sure is it's Italian and likely pre-75 because of the lack of brake cable guides and water bottle braze ons. And it seems likely that it is in fact a Losa built bike for some other company.....Fun stuff!
Thanks everyone!

nice piece of detective work.

are Losa known for quality, I wonder?

not if that top tube lug is any indication.

The frame in the OP looks to have been made by someone a lot more obsessed with finish than the CL frame, but you can't argue against the similarities.