Help! ID this frame.
 

Hello all, I snapped this frame up the other day for not a lot but haven't a clue what it is. It arrived this morning and I have had a look at it but am still none the wiser. As there seem to be so many knowledgable people on here I'm hoping someone can help identify it.

Measures:

57cm - centre bb to top of seat tube
56.5cm - top tube
130mm rear spacing
68mm italian threaded bb (unusual? i thought they were meant to be 70mm..)
27mm (maybe 27.2) seat post - it is definitely bigger than 26.8mm at the top and I was told it is 27mm however my cheap plastic ruler isn't really accurate enough to tell.

Front fork dropouts marked columbus, rears appear unstamped.
'B' engraved on the top of the forks. See pics - doesnt look like a bianchi or basso 'b' though.
It has been repainted/coated and I think the original colour was red. Came with a load of rossin stickers on but I know it's not a rossin so they were swiftly removed.

Here's one major dilema...no serial number. Unless the blue powder coating has completely concealed it, there appears to be no serial anywhere. I have looked on the bb, fork steerer, pretty much everywhere. Is there anywhere in particular I should check?

Cheers

You are probably correct about the powder filling in the serial number. the B in the fork crown should be distinct enough that someone recognizes it, but I don't.

I don't think its a Benotto either.

With an Italian BB it would make sense that it's Italian.

I agree, logically it is italian (also came from an employee at 'italian solutions' - a bike co. somewhere in the UK not that that makes it anymore italian) but haven't come up with much despite a lot of time scouring the internet. As for the 'b', there aren't that many italian manufacturers beginning with a 'b', that I've found which is all the more puzzling.

Does anyone have any ideas on the tubing? lugs? etc.
Also was a 68mm wide italian threaded bb the norm for a certain period?

I tempted to go with prugnat lugs from what I've seen but confirmation/rejection of this is welcome.

Barale, Berga, Bevilaqua, Boschetti, Berma, Bottecchia just to name a few (all Italian marques).

Marty

:lol: haha, point taken. Many more than I managed to locate. Will have a look into some of those then but no luck as of yet.

Maybe.
 

Unless the fork isn't original.

and Bertoni, sort of an "Italian for the USA market" brought to us by Mr. Lawee of Motobecane, Italvega, and Univega marketing fame. My guess is it's some flavor of Italian that had the BB shell vigorously "faced", enough to remove 1mm from each side.

I'm going with Bottecchia. judging from the Columbus drop-outs and the way the seat stays are finished.

Bertoni... Bertoni has a B engraved in the front fork heads.
The B does look a bit different, but I can imagine they 'upgraded' the logo in about 20 years.
The way they built made the lugs looks quite alike as well.

Take a look, I see some things that really match:

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...ni_10.jpg.html

Yes, looks like the same lugs on the Bertoni only mine are windowed. However....

I had already looked into Bottecchia and although the lugs and frame seem to match some of them, I dismissed it because all of the ones I found had a 'solid' 'b' (if that makes sense) on the fork.

http://velospace.org/files/P1000691.jpg
Having looked again, I found a 1990 Bottecchia Strada with exactly the same 'b' on the fork though the cable stop (correct term?) on the chainstay is on the bottom whereas mine is on the top. Lugs match those used by Bottecchia in the late 80s/early 90s though so I reckon Bottecchia is the manufacturer.

Any ideas on model? (The Strada above isn't a 100% match)
Where should the serial number be on a Bottecchia?

Wish I had a better picture of the lugs, but I'm thinking it might be a Batavus.

http://www.raydobbins.com/cirque/show/photo75.jpg

When you take a look at the Bottecchia, the rear fork isn't welded to the seat tube as it is on yours: LINK
Though on this picture the cabling is routed quite differently, but that may as well be because of the year this one was built.

I have quite some doubts about the Batavus as well, but that just may be because I'm Dutch and (as far as I know) "we" never used Italian standards.

Still... I'm going with Bertoni.

I'm thinking you're right about the Batavus.

I do recall though, seeing this exact lug arrangement and fork crown with lettering when we were guessing at what someone's Raseza project was.

We're done. It's a Bottecchia.
Check out the link, it's got some pretty nice pictures of the fork as well.

I agree its a Bottecchia ----- and a good looking frame too. Lp

Agreed, Bottecchia it is. Though that one is much nicer, gorgeous in fact!

I also found this one:

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...geViewsIndex=1

I would put the image in the post but it's massive. The lugs are windowed like mine and the cable run across the top are the same. Doesn't help on model though.

I did find an archived BF post (http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-368048.html) that talks about the serial number. According to that Kommissar89 and s70rguy were compiling Bottecchia serial no's, dates and such like. I've just located the serial number under some bright lights and it reads 55 on ones side of the bb and 12.8 on the other (with the point/full stop). Not sure whether anyone can help date it from that?

If you're planning on having the frame repainted, you could put some sandpaper to work on the bottom bracket. It should make some interesting numbers show up, filled with paint ;)

Well I've found '55' and '12.8' on the bottom bracket however I read some Bottecchia's are stamped with the tubing (slx, tlx etc) used so I may investigate further.

I have found a 1988 Bottecchia on ebay that looks very much like the frame matches mine - I'm further persuaded by the fact mine used to be red and this one is also so I've emailed the seller asking for some large pictures. If I get any and it matches I'll put them up to show what the frame/bike used to look like.

Thanks for everyone's insights and opinions so far.

What's the opinion on Bottecchias?
How much is too much to have paid for this frame? - for reference I paid just under £20 so about $30.

so is there chrome under some of that paint? Nice bike by the way.

and you got it for a steal.... or a song or a great price.

Often the original frame's (or at least the fork's) color can be identified by looking at the fork steerer. At least most of the bikes I've pulled apart had the original fork's color over-sprayed onto the steerer at least about half way up. If there isn't anything, bmaxwell may be on to something with a possible chrome lurking under the powder.

Well the forks are certainly not chrome. The steerer has been scraped clean, obviously there was some overspray with the powdercoating but there are traces of red under the yellow and chipping away around the brake mount hole shows hints of red under the coating too. I found the faint remains of the columbus dove on the steerer but I'm still not sure on the tubing.

Not sure on chrome anywhere else, the powder coating isnt the easiest thing to shift. Any ideas on what works well at removing it for when I decide to repaint?

The lugs for the seat tube bolt are very smooth and shiny under the coating but this could just be nice metal...haven't managed to investigate further. I'm guessing the frame would've been blasted/acid dipped before powder coating so even if any of the lugs had been chrome I'm not sure what condition it would be in now.

Still even if there isn't any chrome it's still a nice frame to be worked on a built up at some point. The guy on ebay replied to say he'd send some pics over at some point so if they match I may even get a model id too.