Can anyone identify / date this?
 

Hi

I recently picked up two really old frames. Dont know anything about them.

One (almost a basket case) has a bent fork, and rather rusty and pitted, however the other, looks like it will clean up real nice.

I have a good fork for it, and it also has horizontal rear dropouts. The one I will more than likely salvage is branded "wilson" and has "British made" stamped on the bottom of the BB shell.

Any ideas about the vintage? what size wheels it originally had? some 27 inch wheels I have fitted in the frame nicely, so my guess is either 27 or 28 inch.

Has en english threaded bottom bracket, however I cannot get the fixed cup out! Ideas?

Thinking about building it as either a fixed or single speed, as there really isnt enough there for a resto!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...r/bikes010.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...r/bikes011.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...r/bikes012.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ikenewy043.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ikenewy044.jpg

Those are track ends.

Besides being used on track bikes these dropouts (that aren't technically dropouts) were also used on coaster bikes and 3 speeds.

The simple lugwork and pressed ends suggests that it was an entry level model but it still could be turned into quite a nice ride and that fork appears to be chromed.

It would be nice to see the rear with a wheel mounted up to see what kind of clearance the bike has... 27 inch tyres would seem to be the logical choice for a bike that is this well aged.

thanks for that, I am aware about the track ends, I actually supect this was a 3 speed frame.

I am really keen to work out it's vintage, I suspect late 1940's early 1950's would this be a fair assumption?

ok, managed to get the fixed cup out, was pretty easy actually, took a leaf out of sheldon's book, a 5/8's bolt, 7 washers, and a whole lot of elbow grease!

I can now get to the business of stripping and prepping the frame for paint!

I have a rattle can of automotive mettalic gold here, so it might end up wearing that. should look good. Will also be wearing (if I can find the right type of seatpost) a brooks b72, honey of course!

I don't think they are track frames because of the pump pegs. They look like everyday english three speed frames from any where between 1920 and 1970. But , the pictured frame is OLD. I have never heard of that brand. I think a good restoration, and build up will be interesting.

i dont think it's a 60's frame, because of the style of headset used. it is an integrated style, removable races that sit in the flared cones at the ends of the head tube. in these races sit loads of tiny tiny ball bearings. hmm, reminds me, i got to find some of those.... wonder what size they are...

wont be a true restoration, given it holds no real value, just a nice tidy fixie or single speed...

Lose ball head set bearings are very typical of 1960s and earlier Raleigh/Raleigh clones/British built bikes. Is there a serial number on the top back of the seat post. Roger

That's nice! I hope you have all the parts for the integrated headset, though. Regarding the fixed cup... have you read this thread:

Truly Epic BB removal

They were also used on English "path racer" bicycles, which is what I suspect this frame is.

This looks to me like a pretty early frame, 1930s or 40s perhaps.

Usually 1/8" ball bearings at the headset.

Since it appears to be a roadster or light roadster frame it would most likely either have been 28x1-1/2 or 26x1-3/8 wheels. The easiest way to tell which is to measure the wheelbase, it would be about 47 inches for a roadster, and about 42 inches for a light roadster.

There is a company called Wilson Bicycle Sales in Califoria, I believe they are a distributor rather than a retailer. They may have had their own branded bicycle made in England. Also there were hundreds of different brands of bicycles made in England during the 1930's most of them being bought out by BSA, Phillips, and Raleigh after WWII, and Raleigh eventually acquired BSA and Phillips.

Anyway, that is a nifty find.

The presence of brazed on pump pegs would lead me to believe it's indeed not a track frame.

I think its cool, I like it and a worthy candidate for a serious cleanup. Try to keep good pics of any graphics if you want to restote them someday.

Adding to my previous comment, it kind of looks like the headtube angle is rather steep for it to be a roadster. Usually roadsters have the head tube and seat tube parallel. Oh, well, I was trying to help solve the mystery.

Hopefully Viscount will take a look and have some idea. If not, I'd kick it over the the Classic Rendezvous list and see if Norris, or one of the other chaps from across the pond recognizes it.

Do you have more information on this list?

Agreed... those angles look too steep for a roadster.

well, they guys on the Classic Rendezvous seem to think it is an Australian frame from the 30's or 40's! A bit older than I thought!

I think a respray and rebuild is in order here! :)

I was thinking that it might be one of those odd Aussie builders... check the Australian forum as those guys might give you some good leads.

Measuring the OLD (or drop out width) will give some idea of the age and hub configuration. The track style dropouts on the rear were done away with for imaginary safety reasons (it is easy to imagine the wheel sliding out of the dropouts) at some point which can further date it.