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# Show off that Randonneur; and let's discuss the bike, the gear, the sport

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# Show off that Randonneur; and let's discuss the bike, the gear, the sport

08-10-13, 07:27 PM
#301
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Cool thread! I don't know how I missed it. Here's my entry:

1982 Nishiki Cresta
08-10-13, 11:25 PM
#302
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Also FWIW, I've continued to learn and experiment with front end geometry. This frame is probably the last "experimental" one with 650b for me. It's the 73 degree parallel with 73 mm of fork rake that Jan Jeine has heaped so much praise on, and (drum roll please) I hate it. It's way too unstable, especially at very low speeds, and simply requires far too much attention. A replacement fork with 60mm of rake is at the painters right now and should make the bike very friendly. The bottom line is that I'd pretty much decided that 73 degrees with 50 to 65 mm of rake was adequate for almost anything, and then Jan mentioned that Jack Taylor had decided that 73 degrees and two to two-an-a-half inches of raked worked for everything the made. A bit of quick math showed that two inches is about 50mm and two-and-a-half inches is about 64mm
FWIW- You will note that a very small difference in trail (1-cm or so) causes the bike to handle a bit differently. The fact is that the amount of weight distribution on the front wheel will affect how the bike handles in concert with trail. Longer stem, higher bars, in the drops, on the hoods, longer chain stays, angles, shorter top tube, etc all changes the weight distribution. Some subtly, some not so much (175 lbs body with a weight distribution of 45/55% F/R changes to 40/60%), but the effects can be noticeable.

I am not trying to defend high or low trail. I am simply saying that unless you have Jan's bike handy to compare before categorically dismissing any specific measurements.
08-11-13, 12:14 AM
#303
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Originally Posted by Six jours
Also FWIW, I've continued to learn and experiment with front end geometry. This frame is probably the last "experimental" one with 650b for me. It's the 73 degree parallel with 73 mm of fork rake that Jan Jeine has heaped so much praise on, and (drum roll please) I hate it. It's way too unstable, especially at very low speeds, and simply requires far too much attention. A replacement fork with 60mm of rake is at the painters right now and should make the bike very friendly. The bottom line is that I'd pretty much decided that 73 degrees with 50 to 65 mm of rake was adequate for almost anything, and then Jan mentioned that Jack Taylor had decided that 73 degrees and two to two-an-a-half inches of raked worked for everything the made. A bit of quick math showed that two inches is about 50mm and two-and-a-half inches is about 64mm. Light bulb...
.
Further to Brian's comment. You shouldn't be surprised by that at all. 73mm or rake, even on a 73mm head tube is quite low trail. what happens when you lower trail? you move the contact patch closer to the steering axis and make the bike twitchier. Why is low trail desireable for randonneuring? well it isn't unless you like to carry a whole bunch of weight on the front. Low trail reduces wheel flop which is why randos who ride with bar bags like it and randonneurs in North America are doing big distances at speed. they're not going slow. Low trail only makes sense for actually randonneuring and cargo bikes. it doesn't actually make sense for most other applications. I have a sense that rando bikes have become fashionable though they aren;t always sensible for the average rider.
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08-11-13, 08:36 AM
#304
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Originally Posted by Saguaro
Cool thread! I don't know how I missed it. Here's my entry:

Well done! I love those 80s Japanese tourers, especially when updated to retro (I know, sounds kinda ironic) French rando/cyclotouriste style bikes. Japanese tourers of 80s vintage were very well built and tend to ride impressively smoothly and stably.
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08-11-13, 09:04 AM
#305
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Lots of great talk about Rando bikes and the sport in this thread. I'd like know what y'all think about Audax: I participated in an Audax of sorts last year in a 12 hour cycling event "the 12 hours of St. Pete". It was, really, more of an Audax [I]and[I] Randonneuring event, as riders could register as either "solo" or in groups of 3 or 4. Each category had it's own victor based on mileage & laps completed on a course with set checkpoints.

I competed as a solo entry, but "teamed up" with other solo riders and we supported each other, and shared in the effort. It was an awesome time. I completed 130 miles that day.

Last year I rode my mid-1970's Bob Jackson Audax; a truly purpose built audax bike, with full Reynolds 531, "sporty" geometry, & it requires long reach center pull brakes so it can fit fenders and 27" wheels. It is definitely not a Rando bike, no fat tire clearance, no front load geo...it's meant to be ridden in audax events, in the British style, in a group, with a rear saddle bag. I built it up over a few months with all period-correct mix of French, British, and Japanese components of the same era. I'm currently in the process of re-building as I've put a lot of miles on it since the build up.

Bob Jackson Audax by (cobrabyte), on Flickr

The prior year, I rode my Kilo TT fixed gear bike I completed 115 painfull miles lol the Bob Jackson certainly made the next year a more pleasurable experience.

Mercier Kilo TT by (cobrabyte), on Flickr

Any of you other guys have an "Audax" bike? I'd like to see some other examples.
08-11-13, 09:26 AM
#306
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Originally Posted by cobrabyte
Any of you other guys have an "Audax" bike? I'd like to see some other examples.
Great looking machine and an excellent question.

I've been on the Bob Jackson & Mercian websites spec'ing a new Audax build for myself, anyone riding a current version of either?

-Bandera
08-11-13, 09:39 AM
#307
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Bikes: 1982 Fuji Supreme, Specialized 2012 Roubaix Compact. 1981? Raleigh Reliant mixte, Velo Orange Campeur (in progress)

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Inspired by the bikes I see in Bike Quarterly and having an urge to pick up the bike from my youth I decided to combine the two inspirations in to a single bike. It started as a low end Fuji (Supreme) from 1982 with a poor paint job and after being re-painted by Southwest Frameworks I added a new 46/30 crank, an 8 speed 105 drivetrain, and bar end shifters. Top it off with aluminum fenders, 32mm tires, a Carradice in the back and a Arkel small handlebar bag up front along with dynamo lighting and this is my version:

Attached Images
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IMG_0296.jpg (100.0 KB, 854 views)
08-11-13, 10:45 AM
#308
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Originally Posted by Saguaro
Cool thread! I don't know how I missed it. Here's my entry:

1982 Nishiki Cresta
Who is the rear bag manufacturer? Very cool looking.
08-11-13, 10:57 AM
#309
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt
Who is the rear bag manufacturer? Very cool looking.
Acorn. Well made products. Order early order fast.

https://www.acornbags.com/

-D
08-11-13, 11:33 AM
#310
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Originally Posted by mechanicmatt
Who is the rear bag manufacturer? Very cool looking.
That is a Roll Bag made by Acorn Bags. The color is Ranger Tan. https://www.acornbags.com/rollbag.html

The front bag is a Mini Rando Bag in Ranger Tan, also by Acorn Bags. https://www.acornbags.com/minirandobag.html

They're a little hard to obtain as they are produced in limited quantities by a husband and wife team in Southern California. I got on their e-mail notification list and eventually purchased mine through their on-line store. The quality is outstanding and they have lots of thoughtful features. The waxed canvas material looks great on a bike like this.
08-11-13, 11:45 AM
#311
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Originally Posted by cobrabyte
Lots of great talk about Rando bikes and the sport in this thread. I'd like know what y'all think about Audax: I participated in an Audax of sorts last year in a 12 hour cycling event "the 12 hours of St. Pete". It was, really, more of an Audax [I]and[I] Randonneuring event, as riders could register as either "solo" or in groups of 3 or 4. Each category had it's own victor based on mileage & laps completed on a course with set checkpoints.
No 12 Hours of St Pete this year?!? Any word why? Looks like a lot of fun (PAIN!) I heard about it LAST year AFTER it had happened!
08-11-13, 11:51 AM
#312
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Originally Posted by RubberLegs
No 12 Hours of St Pete this year?!? Any word why? Looks like a lot of fun (PAIN!) I heard about it LAST year AFTER it had happened!
From what I heard the organizers of the event moved away and there's a group of folks working to make it happen in 2014. I hope so!
08-11-13, 01:40 PM
#313
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Originally Posted by Saguaro
That is a Roll Bag made by Acorn Bags. The color is Ranger Tan. https://www.acornbags.com/rollbag.html

The front bag is a Mini Rando Bag in Ranger Tan, also by Acorn Bags. https://www.acornbags.com/minirandobag.html

They're a little hard to obtain as they are produced in limited quantities by a husband and wife team in Southern California. I got on their e-mail notification list and eventually purchased mine through their on-line store. The quality is outstanding and they have lots of thoughtful features. The waxed canvas material looks great on a bike like this.
A couple of the people on the vintage ride I do once a week have these bags on their Pashley retro bikes. Definitely as nice looking in person as in the pics.,,,,BD
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08-11-13, 08:11 PM
#314
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Thanks Saguaro and djkashuba
08-14-13, 08:05 PM
#315
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Originally Posted by balindamood
FWIW- You will note that a very small difference in trail (1-cm or so) causes the bike to handle a bit differently. The fact is that the amount of weight distribution on the front wheel will affect how the bike handles in concert with trail. Longer stem, higher bars, in the drops, on the hoods, longer chain stays, angles, shorter top tube, etc all changes the weight distribution. Some subtly, some not so much (175 lbs body with a weight distribution of 45/55% F/R changes to 40/60%), but the effects can be noticeable.

I am not trying to defend high or low trail. I am simply saying that unless you have Jan's bike handy to compare before categorically dismissing any specific measurements.
I certainly can "categorically dismiss specific measurements" for myself. I don't like really low trail. I don't like it at 220 pounds and I don't like it at 165 pounds. I don't like with with a heavily loaded handlebar bag and I don't like it with no load at all. I don't like it with my bars way up in the air and I don't like it with my bars well below the saddle. Short version: I don't like really low trail under any circumstance I've tried, and I've tried a lot. That doesn't, of course, mean that anybody else will or will not like it...
08-15-13, 10:09 AM
#316
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Originally Posted by Six jours
I don't like really low trail. I don't like it at 220 pounds and I don't like it at 165 pounds. I don't like with with a heavily loaded handlebar bag and I don't like it with no load at all. I don't like it with my bars way up in the air and I don't like it with my bars well below the saddle.
But do you like green eggs and ham?
08-15-13, 11:07 AM
#317
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my Zunow randonneur, modernized with Chorus 9 speed. all it needs is a Berthoud bag up front.
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08-15-13, 11:42 AM
#318
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Damn, that's badass, great work. Is that the Rene Herse crank?

Last edited by Orrery; 08-16-13 at 07:30 AM.
08-15-13, 11:54 AM
#319
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Catnap, have you gotten a chance to take your Zunow on a long ride yet?

Here is my 1981 Bianchi Limited that I converted to 650B. It still has the original Dia Compe brake levers, SR stem, and Suntour shifters, while everything else is modern. The conversion to 650B worked out extremely well for me, this bike is really fun to ride.

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08-15-13, 05:16 PM
#320
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Originally Posted by Orrery
Damn, that's badass, great work. Is that the Rene Hearse crank?
No, it's the Sugino Pro Dynamic crank and matching chainrings. looks similar to the Herse crank though, probably intentional on Sugino's part. The chainrings are very rare and I went to some trouble to find them.

Originally Posted by rowebr
Catnap, have you gotten a chance to take your Zunow on a long ride yet?
Yes, I brought it up to my parents' house in the Berkshire mountains and put about 100 miles on it across three days' worth of riding. it's everything i hoped it would be!
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08-15-13, 05:29 PM
#321
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Not sure what fair market value might be, but there's a nice 58cm Terraferma Randoneur frame on the 'bay right now (True Temper Platinum OX tubing with Honjo fenders): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Terraferma-R...item35ca989476

Catnap, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE looking at your Zunow!
08-15-13, 10:07 PM
#322
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Originally Posted by Catnap
Yes, I brought it up to my parents' house in the Berkshire mountains and put about 100 miles on it across three days' worth of riding. it's everything i hoped it would be!
Hey, are you going to ride it at D2R2 next weekend? I would love to see this bike in its element!
08-15-13, 10:20 PM
#323
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Originally Posted by gaucho777
Not sure what fair market value might be, but there's a nice 58cm Terraferma Randoneur frame on the 'bay right now (True Temper Platinum OX tubing with Honjo fenders): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Terraferma-R...item35ca989476

Catnap, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE looking at your Zunow!
that Terrafirma is gorgeous! thanks for the compliments on the Zunow.

Originally Posted by southpawboston
Hey, are you going to ride it at D2R2 next weekend? I would love to see this bike in its element!

I was going to do D2R2, but I'm moving in two weeks so I felt that I should stay home and spend the weekend packing boxes.
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08-16-13, 02:18 AM
#324
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Can I stop staring at that Zunow? Nope. Nope I can't.

I got to build up my motorbacon pronto, the last 200k's of the season are next month and I'd like to try one.
08-16-13, 07:25 AM
#325
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Originally Posted by Catnap

my Zunow randonneur, modernized with Chorus 9 speed. all it needs is a Berthoud bag up front.
Wow!!! Beautiful bike and great build!