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Show off that Randonneur; and let's discuss the bike, the gear, the sport

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Show off that Randonneur; and let's discuss the bike, the gear, the sport

Old 06-07-14, 08:51 AM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by vqstaphbeard View Post
Not exactly a randonneur, but the closest I have to it. 1988 Schwinn Voyageur fitted with bags I made.


Beautiful! I have a Passage which is kind of like a cousin to yours. What kind of fenders are those? Did you upgrade the canti-brakes? I think your seat post is original? Those are areas I'd like to upgrade on mine. Cheers!
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Old 06-16-14, 09:27 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by cptsilver View Post
Beautiful! I have a Passage which is kind of like a cousin to yours. What kind of fenders are those? Did you upgrade the canti-brakes? I think your seat post is original? Those are areas I'd like to upgrade on mine. Cheers!
Not my bike, but I have a Voyageur as well. His is what looks like a stock seat post, Velo Orange Hammered Fenders, appears to be stock brakes with a pad change. Hope this helps...
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Old 06-17-14, 02:46 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Not my bike, but I have a Voyageur as well. His is what looks like a stock seat post, Velo Orange Hammered Fenders, appears to be stock brakes with a pad change. Hope this helps...
Thanks!
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Old 06-17-15, 08:01 PM
  #354  
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I'm reviving this old thread with a "real randonneur" made in France by one of the last constructeurs... my Gilles Berthoud Randonneur.



Needs new stem and bars, and I'm going to change the drivetrain a bit, still French though.
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Old 06-18-15, 05:53 AM
  #355  
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Originally Posted by MZilliox View Post
I'm reviving this old thread with a "real randonneur" made in France by one of the last constructeurs... my Gilles Berthoud Randonneur.



Needs new stem and bars, and I'm going to change the drivetrain a bit, still French though.
Wow...gorgeous bike...and...I do not see anything wrong with the stem and bars!!! What are the changes you want to make??? It looks quite nice to me!
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Old 06-18-15, 08:10 AM
  #356  
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Originally Posted by daf1009 View Post
Wow...gorgeous bike...and...I do not see anything wrong with the stem and bars!!! What are the changes you want to make??? It looks quite nice to me!
The stem is very short, both in terms of reach and height. if you look closely, its an old stem that has been sanded to fit the French 22.0mm headset. the bars are only 40cm wide, not ideal for a rando machine, not a lot of room between the bars and bag.. I have a set of 44cm wide noodles arriving soon. the gearing is too low, the triple being something like 26-38-46 and the rear being 15-28. there are essentially no high gears. I found a Stronglight 107 32-42-52 that should do the job nicely.
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Old 06-18-15, 08:45 AM
  #357  
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Yes, time to bump this thread a little.

Wants to do a little short tours this summer so landed a handle bar bag (another, other was stolen ). Think the bike candidate I choose will be my late 60's Dawes Galaxy. Pics will have to wait while I source the GB rando bars and remount the Suntour Barcons. Wheels will be 700cc wide rim rubber don't know yet.

MZilliox, Gorgeous example of this style of machine !
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Old 06-18-15, 10:13 AM
  #358  
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Since this thread was resurrected, I'll post my new randonneur: a purpose-built randonneur by custom frame builder Jeff Lyon, who is based in Grants Pass, OR. Jeff has been building 650B randonneurs for a long time, and his experience is one of the reasons I chose him. The other was price: Jeff offers a "budget" line of hand-built bikes called "L'Avecaise", which translates to "with ease"-- the idea is that the L'Avecaise is a full custom in terms of tubing and geometry, but with a few restrictions with regard to braze-ons and finish quality in order to save build time; it's built "with ease". For example, the L'Avecaise is built with socketed dropouts since the tube mitering for them takes less time. And the standard lugs aren't filed quite as much as on a Jeff Lyon custom. Lastly, the L'Avecaise comes with canti mounts, as opposed to more expensive centerpull braze-ons. According to Jeff, the difference between a L'Avecaise and a Jeff Lyon is several hours of finishing time, which translates into significant savings. That said, Jeff is such a master at his craft (nearly 40 years) that his L'Avecaise finish quality is up there with many respected builders' best work. And that savings can be used elsewhere, such as building up the bike with higher quality parts.

So I ordered up a 650B L'Avecaise, giving Jeff my geometry and dimensions, and I let him build it with the tubing he felt would give the bike the qualities I wanted. Bike geometry is roughly as follows: 62x57 c-c, 72d seat tube, 73d head tube, 32mm trail. Tubing is .7/.4/.7 top tube, .8/.5/.8 down tube, and I have no clue about the rest of the bike. I paid extra for a few features over the standard L'Avecaise: Grand Bois fork crown with Kaisei Special Oval fork blades for a more compliant front end, and a few braze-on extras for integrated dynamo lighting. I also had him build me a custom fillet-brazed 1" threadless stem. I also paid more for custom paint by Keith Anderson, in a vintage VW blue. Final weight as shown below, but minus the Berthoud handlebar bag and water bottles, is 23.5 lb. The bike is a fantastic climber, and rides stable yet nimbly. I haven't had an all-day ride yet, but I've clocked in two 50-milers, and I've finished both barely breaking a sweat. A very comfortable bike!




Bike is built up with a Shimergo hybrid drivetrain: Campy Record 10-speed carbon shifters mated to Dura Ace 7800 mechs and 11-28 DA cassette via a JTek Shiftmate. Driven by a Rene Herse 44/28T double:




I'll let this be the segue to a little venture I started with Tom Matchak, a frame builder in NH, to generate high-end dynamo lighting components and accessories, which we will be selling very shortly. I collaborated with Tom to design and fabricate our exclusive "TMAT" rotary stem switch for threadless steerers, to switch the generator lighting on/off. And it's 100% waterproof-- it can even be submerged. We were so happy with the outcome, we decided to start offering these to the public. The first batch of 30 will be available for sale soon:



To go along with the TMAT stem switch, I designed and fabricated my own "AT" fender taillight. Bright LED with powerful standlight and overvoltage protection, inside a CNC-milled housing. One surprise I discovered was that it's lighter than some commercially available taillights with cheap plastic housings. It's also waterproof and submersible. These will also be available for sale. I just finished the first batch of 25. Half are in raw machined finish (shown) and half are polished to a mirror shine.





Based on demand for these items from the bespoke community (a big faction of which are randonneurs with randonneur-type bikes, hence the need for lighting), I may be adding components as I develop them.

Last edited by southpawboston; 06-18-15 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 06-18-15, 10:18 AM
  #359  
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very cool bike, i am living in Grants Pass now, i need to meet with this Jeff Lyons i think. I am very excited for Kieth Anderson's shop to open here any time now. And how cool is your lighting system? thats next on my list of upgrades for the Berthoud
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Old 06-18-15, 10:35 AM
  #360  
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Here is my Raleigh Clubman, in the french style. This was as purchased, from france.



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Old 06-18-15, 11:06 AM
  #361  
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
Since this thread was resurrected, I'll post my new randonneur: a purpose-built randonneur by custom frame builder Jeff Lyon, who is based in Grants Pass, OR.
Wow, that is very cool! It's nice to see there's some dirt on it, too-- your photos often show your bikes looking a little too clean for my taste!




Here's my 'randonneur' bike, which I've shown on several threads in the last year. It's a 1975-6 Holdsworth "531 Special" frame that a previous owner modified with eyelets for fenders, top tube cable guides, two sets of water bottle bosses, down tube cable stops, and then eyelets for racks. Each dropout has two different eyelets. Anyway, I painted it and built it up with 650b tires. The fenders and light housings, seen here, are all from a 1950's Durkopp bike. I put LED's in them, but I wasn't happy with the headlight, so replaced it with a B&M one, which was very bright but stopped working the last time I rode it. I haven't had a chance to diagnose that yet, and am hoping that's nothing serious....

I have ridden this bike on only one brevet, a 400k ride that I did not finish. So I'm not sure I can claim the build is a complete success. I also rode it on a week long tour last summer, fully loaded with racks and panniers front and back, and the bike handled remarkably well in that setting.
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Old 06-18-15, 11:28 AM
  #362  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Wow, that is very cool! It's nice to see there's some dirt on it, too-- your photos often show your bikes looking a little too clean for my taste!
I always have to capture the glamour shots before they get dirty. Unlike popular belief, my bikes aren't usually as clean as in my photographs!

That Holdsworth conversion is pretty neat, and it looks like it may originally have been built with really short reach brakes for narrow clinchers-- those frames often work great for conversion. I don't see a lot of spare clearance at the crown or brake bride for those puffy 650B tires!

I recognize that Riv'd-out water bottle! Glad yer getting use out of it!

I have a lot of experience with ripping apart B&M headlights. The biggest problem with them is moisture intrusion. Was it after riding in wet weather that it stopped working? If you're lucky, it's just the switch contacts that have corroded.

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Old 06-18-15, 11:33 AM
  #363  
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1973 Raleigh Competition, 2014 reconstruct by J.P. Weigle

Ready for a 5 day credit card tour of the Sierras. Gilles Berthoud 2886 rack on Peter's "modern art" front rack, showing off the reraked, low trail geometry. Minnehaha rear bag, VO Zepellin fenders, Rene Herse cranks


Backside of Bald Peak Road west of Portland, OR. You can see the brake interrupters, Ultegra bar end shifters, and vintage bell from this angle.


Capella lugs


Designed the decaleur myself, local machine shop friend made it. I couldn't find anything off the shelf that would move the bag away from the handlebars and still have room for the interrupters. That's a Brooks Imperial saddle on a Nitto lugged, brazed seatpost. Ditto Nitto stem. Peter's custom rear battery powered LED seat tube light, PBP compliant.


At Ed Litton's shop in Richmond, CA. He let me "dot the eyes" on the Capella lugs myself.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Raleigh Caltrain.jpg (104.1 KB, 934 views)
File Type: jpg
Raleigh Comp fog.jpg (98.8 KB, 934 views)
File Type: jpg
Raleigh front bag.jpg (103.3 KB, 931 views)
File Type: jpg
Raleigh on the road.jpg (103.5 KB, 926 views)
File Type: jpg
frame paint.jpg (103.5 KB, 923 views)
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Old 06-18-15, 12:07 PM
  #364  
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What with this being a zombie thread from 2009, no telling what's buried in those other 14 pages. So maybe I've posted this before. Relates to the original post, not the new posts immediately above.

Anyway, several years ago, on a 600k, I tried to photograph all the bikes being used. Results are here, missing one or two: 600kRandoBikes Slideshow by stephenhazelton | Photobucket
The immediate lesson being that most randonneurs in this area don't use "randonneur" bikes. So that can be a fairly misleading term if you're new to randonneuring, akin to calling stock cars "race cars" to the exclusion of all others. From a survey of PBP participants in 2007, "42% of riders used a handlebar bag...Many combined the handlebar bag with a saddlebag". So if you go to France, ride the biggest randonneuring event known to man, and use a bike with box-in-front, you're in a minority. And if you use the box-in-front exclusively (no saddlebag), you're in a smaller minority. We might assume that a good many of those bikes didn't use wide tires, 650 wheels, etc., so the incidence of "true" randonneuring bikes is bound to be pretty low, even in major French randonneuring events.
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Old 06-18-15, 12:15 PM
  #365  
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Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
I certainly can "categorically dismiss specific measurements" for myself. I don't like really low trail. I don't like it at 220 pounds and I don't like it at 165 pounds. I don't like with with a heavily loaded handlebar bag and I don't like it with no load at all. I don't like it with my bars way up in the air and I don't like it with my bars well below the saddle. Short version: I don't like really low trail under any circumstance I've tried, and I've tried a lot. That doesn't, of course, mean that anybody else will or will not like it...
Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
But do you like green eggs and ham?
I know it's a zombie, but this just made me smile (plus, it's a classic thread).
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Old 06-18-15, 12:24 PM
  #366  
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That matched stem is a beaut, @southpawboston. Any reason you went with the shiftmate + Dura Ace option instead of just Campy? More hub options?
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Old 06-18-15, 12:27 PM
  #367  
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Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
What with this being a zombie thread from 2009, no telling what's buried in those other 14 pages. So maybe I've posted this before. Relates to the original post, not the new posts immediately above.

Anyway, several years ago, on a 600k, I tried to photograph all the bikes being used. Results are here, missing one or two: 600kRandoBikes Slideshow by stephenhazelton | Photobucket
The immediate lesson being that most randonneurs in this area don't use "randonneur" bikes. So that can be a fairly misleading term if you're new to randonneuring, akin to calling stock cars "race cars" to the exclusion of all others. From a survey of PBP participants in 2007, "42% of riders used a handlebar bag...Many combined the handlebar bag with a saddlebag". So if you go to France, ride the biggest randonneuring event known to man, and use a bike with box-in-front, you're in a minority. And if you use the box-in-front exclusively (no saddlebag), you're in a smaller minority. We might assume that a good many of those bikes didn't use wide tires, 650 wheels, etc., so the incidence of "true" randonneuring bikes is bound to be pretty low, even in major French randonneuring events.
Wow, lot of titanium.
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Old 06-18-15, 01:04 PM
  #368  
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Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky View Post
That matched stem is a beaut, @southpawboston. Any reason you went with the shiftmate + Dura Ace option instead of just Campy? More hub options?
Thanks! The stem is the only part on the bike that I had a hand in designing-- I had originally ordered just a frame+fork, expecting to use a stock 9/8" stem with shim. Along the way, I discovered Brian Chapman's custom stems on his builds, and was impressed with how well integrated they looked with the rest of his bikes. When the frame arrived and I stuck a VO stem on there, it just looked all wrong. So I penned a design on paper of a stem inspired by Brian Chapman's many variations of the same theme-- paint-matched 1" threadless brazed stems with integrated hangers, and asked Jeff if he would build it. He said sure! But I'd have to wait. So I waited, but it was worth it.

I went with the Shimergo because I already had the DA drivetrain, but didn't want to use Shimano brifters or bar-ends. So I experimented with a set of Campy brifters and was sold. If you have a spare CAmpy 10-spd drivetrain laying around I'd be happy to throw it on there instead... .
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Old 06-18-15, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
Thanks! The stem is the only part on the bike that I had a hand in designing-- I had originally ordered just a frame+fork, expecting to use a stock 9/8" stem with shim. Along the way, I discovered Brian Chapman's custom stems on his builds, and was impressed with how well integrated they looked with the rest of his bikes. When the frame arrived and I stuck a VO stem on there, it just looked all wrong. So I penned a design on paper of a stem inspired by Brian Chapman's many variations of the same theme-- paint-matched 1" threadless brazed stems with integrated hangers, and asked Jeff if he would build it. He said sure! But I'd have to wait. So I waited, but it was worth it.

I went with the Shimergo because I already had the DA drivetrain, but didn't want to use Shimano brifters or bar-ends. So I experimented with a set of Campy brifters and was sold. If you have a spare CAmpy 10-spd drivetrain laying around I'd be happy to throw it on there instead... .
I do have a box of ten speed Daytona, but its spoken for. Hopefully making an appearance on this thread soon.

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Old 06-18-15, 02:44 PM
  #370  
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So this being a zombie thread and all, it has drifted to a discussion of bikes more than the sport, but still... anyone have anything to say about the sport?

I am new to RUSA and have so far completed two 200k and one 300k brevets, which is probably not enough to entitle me to an opinion. But I am not new to long distance riding, have done a century or two every month for several years as well as multi day tours and other riding.

And at this point I'm not sure I like RUSA-style events. The routes are designed for fast riding, emphasis on good pavement. Worse, they have to have a limited number of controles, so they tend to go the shortest route between controles, because otherwise people could take short cuts. All this has the effect of putting you on roads you might otherwise shun. And then you have to ride them with a cue sheet. I understand why this is, but it's not my favorite way of riding.

Anyone else have this experience?
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Old 06-18-15, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
So this being a zombie thread and all, it has drifted to a discussion of bikes more than the sport, but still... anyone have anything to say about the sport?

I am new to RUSA and have so far completed two 200k and one 300k brevets, which is probably not enough to entitle me to an opinion. But I am not new to long distance riding, have done a century or two every month for several years as well as multi day tours and other riding.

And at this point I'm not sure I like RUSA-style events. The routes are designed for fast riding, emphasis on good pavement. Worse, they have to have a limited number of controles, so they tend to go the shortest route between controles, because otherwise people could take short cuts. All this has the effect of putting you on roads you might otherwise shun. And then you have to ride them with a cue sheet. I understand why this is, but it's not my favorite way of riding.

Anyone else have this experience?
I've never done an RUSA event, but it seems to me that a lot of the finer points might be controlled by the individual organizers of each event right? It doesn't seem to me that there's a lot of top-down hierarchy to the organization, but I could be mistaken.
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Old 06-18-15, 03:08 PM
  #372  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
1973 Raleigh Competition, 2014 reconstruct by J.P. Weigle

Ready for a 5 day credit card tour of the Sierras. Gilles Berthoud 2886 rack on Peter's "modern art" front rack, showing off the reraked, low trail geometry. Minnehaha rear bag, VO Zepellin fenders, Rene Herse cranks


Backside of Bald Peak Road west of Portland, OR. You can see the brake interrupters, Ultegra bar end shifters, and vintage bell from this angle.


Capella lugs


Designed the decaleur myself, local machine shop friend made it. I couldn't find anything off the shelf that would move the bag away from the handlebars and still have room for the interrupters. That's a Brooks Imperial saddle on a Nitto lugged, brazed seatpost. Ditto Nitto stem. Peter's custom rear battery powered LED seat tube light, PBP compliant.


At Ed Litton's shop in Richmond, CA. He let me "dot the eyes" on the Capella lugs myself.
I never tire of this bike, thanks for sharing again, its one of my all time favorites
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Old 06-18-15, 03:13 PM
  #373  
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post



Based on demand for these items from the bespoke community (a big faction of which are randonneurs with randonneur-type bikes, hence the need for lighting), I may be adding components as I develop them.
Nice light. I may have missed it, but where do you sell such things?
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Old 06-18-15, 03:13 PM
  #374  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
So this being a zombie thread and all, it has drifted to a discussion of bikes more than the sport, but still... anyone have anything to say about the sport?

I am new to RUSA and have so far completed two 200k and one 300k brevets, which is probably not enough to entitle me to an opinion. But I am not new to long distance riding, have done a century or two every month for several years as well as multi day tours and other riding.

And at this point I'm not sure I like RUSA-style events. The routes are designed for fast riding, emphasis on good pavement. Worse, they have to have a limited number of controles, so they tend to go the shortest route between controles, because otherwise people could take short cuts. All this has the effect of putting you on roads you might otherwise shun. And then you have to ride them with a cue sheet. I understand why this is, but it's not my favorite way of riding.

Anyone else have this experience?
The routing and distance between controls will vary depending on where you are, how busy the roads are, etc. Generally, I look at it as putting controls where you can't short cut, rather than the taking the most direct route between controls. That is, you ideally pick the good route and then select controls accordingly to fit it, not the other way around. If that "good" route is all convoluted and needs 100 controls, it just means it's not a good randonneuring route in the first place, and that does happen. I've created a number of routes, but have yet to create a perm starting at my door step for that reason. The problem is, I've got good side streets that meander around, but they're easily shortcutted by riding on busier roads that most people elect not to ride on. You are allowed some discretion in creating a route, to say that Road X is technically a shortcut, but nobody in their right mind would use it, so therefore we don't need to put a control to eliminate it, either. Road X may be a freeway, a too-busy road, a dirt road, whatever. There's some judgment that comes in on the part of the riders, the route creators, and the people at RUSA that approve the routes.

I've heard that in the northeast, they'll have a 5-page cue sheet for a 200k, which is not the norm here, but I'm assuming that's a response to dealing with issues like I mentioned in my own neighborhood.

You might check into the "Free Route" permanents, which allow you some variation on the route.

Also, ask around with the local randonneurs as to the "better" routes available. We've got routes with more or less traffic, closer or farther from home, hillier or flatter, etc., and if you just pick routes at random, they may be a far cry from the "best" routes. People differ as to their tolerance for traffic, for rough roads, number of turns, etc., so you may be riding somebody else's idea of the best route out there, but it's not your idea of the best route.

If you know of a good route without too many turns, without too many controls, good roads, and all that, consider creating your own perm out of it. And if it's a better route, it can be made into a brevet route as well.

A number of the routes in this area were old club routes. They were maybe 100 mile routes, and adding on a few miles here or there made them into a 200k. So it doesn't all get invented from scratch.

The routes are not necessarily designed for fast riding- how fast you ride is up to you. Around here, if a route has unpaved sections of any length, there will be very few people that ride it. Rough roads are not favored if there's a choice, but tolerated to an extent. We've got a couple of counties that are "fixing" rural paved roads by putting gravel on the rough spots, which doesn't help any.
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Old 06-18-15, 03:14 PM
  #375  
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Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky View Post
I've never done an RUSA event, but it seems to me that a lot of the finer points might be controlled by the individual organizers of each event right? It doesn't seem to me that there's a lot of top-down hierarchy to the organization, but I could be mistaken.
I believe you are absolutely right about that.

And there's a neat thing: they allow you to set up and manage any number of "permanent" routes, so you can ride and get credit for the routes you like to ride regularly anyway; and other people can ride them the same way. Intrigued, I started designing a couple on RidewithGPS. And I started running into the limitations of the form right away. For example, one of my favorite roads is "Dune Road" on the south shore of Long Island. But there's really no way to put a controle on it, without actually being there. I'd have to settle for a controlle at each end, and give the rider credit for the shortest route between the two, and suggest the nice way to go is Dune Road. So they'd get credit for maybe 15 miles while they actually ride 20. Now, that's just an example... but it seems to me a good example of the kind of compromise you have to make when designing a ride, with the inevitable result that they feel compromised.

I wonder if RUSA will one day accept Strava data, or the like, as proof that you've done a ride.

And this brings up another point. Who tf cares? I don't ride for RUSA status, and I don't ride so I can post about it on the internet. I ride cuz I like it. Why should I compromise my rides so I can get RUSA credit for them?

the answer is, so I can do the PBP, of course. Which raises a new question; why tf would I want to do that?
@stevenh, I understand and agree. I should have mentioned, I'm essentially car-free, so all my rides start and end at my house. This can easily turn a 200k brevet into a 300k ride.
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