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Show off that Randonneur; and let's discuss the bike, the gear, the sport

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Show off that Randonneur; and let's discuss the bike, the gear, the sport

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Old 01-29-09, 02:12 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
I'd say so. There are the "ironman" type of mentality, pushing you limits. The 64 year old fellow is constantly trying to best his time, he holds the world record for most kms covered in a year on a bicycle (documented anyway) and he pre-rides the annual vancouver island randonneur 1200 before re-riding it with everyone else to make sure there are no surprises on the route.

Then there are the people out to have good time and just cover the distance. EVeryone has difference priorities.
That's the deal - some folks go for time and ride carbon fiber with clip-on fenders and lights; some folks ride full custom randonneuring bikes. Even if you're not riding for a time and just trying to make the cutoff, you still have the dilemma of whether that's best achieved by going faster and sleeping less, or by going slower but being more comfortable.
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Old 01-29-09, 02:22 PM
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IMHO a post of a bunch of pictures of a highly specific set of old french bikes is boring and hermetic, a post about the bikes that people actually use in rando events be they modified road or touring bikes sounds great.
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Old 01-29-09, 02:23 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Business810 View Post
Do you happen to have any photos or build lists of any of those? I'm just curious what exactly you have to do to get one of these bikes that light considering that the Singer and Rivendell in Jan Heine's article both weighed in around 25lbs, and those seemed to be pretty well built bikes!
It would take a while to dig through all my bookmarks and find the really light ones but I'll post one that is 23#'s as pictured:
Alex Singer

http://www.reneherse.com/AlexSinger1947.html

Here is a good site for info and pics: http://www.reneherse.com/

Here is a 1951 Herse at 20.5 pounds or so:


BUild list and more pics:
http://www.ebykr.com/?p=58
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Old 01-29-09, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kpug505 View Post

So is the seatpost reversed to get a longer top tube and steeper headtube for a bike with more tire clearance (less toe overlap I mean) and less trail?
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Old 01-29-09, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kpug505 View Post
It would take a while to dig through all my bookmarks and find the really light ones but I'll post one that is 23#'s as pictured:
Alex Singer

Here is a good site for info and pics: http://www.reneherse.com/

Here is a 1951 Herse at 20.5 pounds or so:

BUild list and more pics:
http://www.ebykr.com/?p=58
Very impressive, especially considering we're talking about ~60 year old bikes! I know very little about randonneurr bikes aside from browsing Velo Orange from time to time, so this is a great thread...
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Old 01-29-09, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kbpfister View Post
IMHO a post of a bunch of pictures of a highly specific set of old french bikes is boring and hermetic, a post about the bikes that people actually use in rando events be they modified road or touring bikes sounds great.
Check out the vintage Trek randonneur:

http://www.pathcom.com/~ppiltch/randobikes.html

Edit to add IF Club Racer:

http://www.blayleys.com/articles/bikes/index.html
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Old 01-29-09, 03:05 PM
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So, would my Trek 520 (1984) make a decent rando type bike?
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Old 01-29-09, 03:11 PM
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How about this?

Sport Tourer that handles like a racer. Nice chrome lugs.

I had a virtually NOS model that I sold this summer.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...ing-1980-04-A/
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Old 01-29-09, 03:20 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
I too have been wondering what makes the Miyata 1000 so desireable. Just rack bosses, cantilevers and slack angles? The one I've been looking for is a Specialized Expedition, but I know very little about loaded tourers.
There's almost a cult for the Miyata 1000. Ultimately, I think that it boils down to the fact there are so few 70/80s full tourers (triple chainring, cantis, triple bottle cages, etc.) out there.

Miyata 1000, Specialized Expedition, and the few Trek models are all you really ever hear about and, consequently, they have become the established models. I'm not in any way knocking them, but I think that their prices have become a bit inflated.

I've seen a couple other full tourers that weren't on this short list but that seemed to be of comparable quality generate significantly less interest.
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Old 01-29-09, 03:20 PM
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Keep in mind, there are really two separate questions here:
1) What is a randonneur (or "randonneuse.")? A true randonneur is purpose-built and quite specific in its qualities and design.
2) What kind of bike can be used for randonneuring? The answer to that is manifold, with some ingenuity and depending upon what kind of randonneuring experience is being sought. And how you feel the first time your flimsy clip-on fenders aren't up to snuff.
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Old 01-29-09, 03:52 PM
  #36  
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Here's my entry. Not a purpose built rando frame, as Picchio Special explains, but it works. Relatively lightweight Reynolds 531 DB, 43cm chainstays, fender mounts. Not sure what the trail is, but steering is predictable (haven't tried with a handlebar bag, as I really don't ride randos ). Could definitely use more braze-ons for carrying stuff. Weighs in at about 23 lbs on the bathroom scale. Not aggressively quick, but quicker than loaded touring rigs I've ridden, and very comfortable. I'd prefer a little more stiffness for climbing, but the wheels may be the culprit there (currently running CR18's on Tiagra hubs). No dynohub for lighting, which would be important for longer brevets. No cantilever brakes, either, so limited on tire size.

It's a Japanese built Raleigh International frameset.

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Old 01-29-09, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Here's my entry. Not a purpose built rando frame, as Picchio Special explains, but it works. Relatively lightweight Reynolds 531 DB, 43cm chainstays, fender mounts. Not sure what the trail is, but steering is predictable (haven't tried with a handlebar bag, as I really don't ride randos ). Could definitely use more braze-ons for carrying stuff. Weighs in at about 23 lbs on the bathroom scale. Not aggressively quick, but quicker than loaded touring rigs I've ridden, and very comfortable. I'd prefer a little more stiffness for climbing, but the wheels may be the culprit there (currently running CR18's on Tiagra hubs). No dynohub for lighting, which would be important for longer brevets. No cantilever brakes, either, so limited on tire size.

It's a Japanese built Raleigh International frameset.


She's a beauty! Well done.

I've been keeping an eye out lately on ebay UK for a very reasonably priced English Reynolds bike (or frameset) that I could bring back here. Ideally, I'll find one by a local builder somewhere that has eyelets for full fenders and racks. I'm just looking for something for fast commuting or short day tours.
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Old 01-29-09, 05:09 PM
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Along the same lines as JYB's Raleigh, my 1972 Paramount. Not a true Rando bike but I was wondering how to measure fork offset on it. The fork seem to have a "French" look to my eye....

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-29-09, 05:15 PM
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If I was going to try to convert for a reasonable/budget cost, I would choose the Motobecane Grand touring because of the bombproof, lightweight Vitus tubing and my drivetrain choice would be Suntour V GT Luxe hands down.....My wheel choice would be Super Champion with Normandy Luxe high flange or any good quality hub from Japan and my brakes would be Vainqueur 999's. The GT feels semi-aggressive, speedy and responsive but not too much so.

I think that another great choice would be a mid-70's hand fillet brazed Schwinn Superior again w/ Suntour V GT Luxe, because of the supreme blend of speed and comfort.

If I had a bit more $ to play with, I would probably choose Moto's The Jubilee made of Reynolds 531, which I believe had shorter rear stays and may be more appropriate for a Randoneur....

But honestly, I'd rather have a full-blown race bike and a full blown touring bike than a randoneur...I either want to go extremely fast, or I want to pack heavy, not a mix of the two

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Old 01-29-09, 05:17 PM
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For the last couple of years, the concept of the rando bicycle has been strongly on my mind as I modify the fleet. I doubt I will ever compete in timed distance events, but I like the idea of a bicycle I could ride for a long day in complete comfort and able to carry what I need without feeling like I'm dragging a piano behind me. So my entries, all works in progress:

1971 Raleigh International, currently set up as a 5-speed w/ Rando bars and Grand Bois tires (though this pic shows it with its previous 8-speed Nexus IG hub):


1984 Raleigh Portage, 650B goodness, would be a fine dedicated tourer (Raleigh 555 tubing), but remarkably comfortable for long rides:


1978 Raleigh Competition GS converted to 650B, Reynolds 531, 10-speeds, Campy mechs:


1972 Norman Fay, Reynolds 531, canti brakes, integrated front rack, 27" wheels:


I also built up an 80s Dawes tourer (canti brakes, 700c wheels) but haven't taken pics yet or ridden the thing in the nasty Boston winter we've been having.

Neal
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Old 01-29-09, 05:21 PM
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That International is stunning. As is the Fay.

Would love to see photos of the Dawes when you get her presentable.
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Old 01-29-09, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
I will say this, the best in the pacific northwest (last years cascade 1200 champ) is 64 years old and rides a litespeed with mavic ksyrium wheels and aero bars... he's not out to get style points, he's out to win and he does, everytime.
While he may usually be the first to finish, there is no winner in a randonneur brevet. They aren't races.

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Old 01-29-09, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
he holds the world record for most kms covered in a year on a bicycle (documented anyway)
More than Tommy Godwin?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_G...list_born_1912)
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Old 01-29-09, 05:41 PM
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Neal and Fender,
Your machines are freekin gorgeous man!
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Old 01-29-09, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
While he may usually be the first to finish, there is no winner in a randonneur brevet. They aren't races.
To most perhaps, but not for Ken. To him it's a race, even if he is only racing himself.

2008 cascade 1200 results

Adler, Audrey 90:56
Aoyama, Eiji 88:50
Applewhaite, John DNF
Barill, Tracy 83:55
Beebe, Ward 87:00
Berube, Thomas DNF
Blauer, Anthony 88:50
Bonner, Ken 64:41
Boxer, Daniel 87:44
Butt, Clyde DNF
Chang, Jennifer DNF
Chase, Barry 86:24
Coldwell, Charles 84:09
Devereux, Drew DNF
Dulieu, Michelle 92:20
Ellis, John Lee 85:16
Fingert, John DNF
Fleck, Chester 79:15
Fox, Mike 89:18
Fritzinger, Micah 82:27
Gilbert, Anthony 91:40
Goursolle, Kitty 91:14
Grabiak, Larry 89:22
Grant, Peter 90:05
Hamilton, Ryan 82:31
Haynes, Martin 90:04
Hennighausen, Lothar 90:04
Hofstede, Jeffery DNF
Honda, Nicole 91:40
Huffman, Sam DNF
Knoblauch, Tom 85:16
Koen, Bob DNF
Koenig, Urs 81:11
Larson, Lesli 91:14
McHale, Mike DNF
Mikkelsen, Ole 85:40
Moore, Barry DNF
Moore, Peter DNF
Morse, Josh 92:20
Olsen, Mark 89:18
Olsen, William 89:18
Phelps, Robin 86:41
Phelps, Val 86:41
Read, Dave 88:20
Rice, Steve 90:04
Roehrig, Mark 88:20
Ryan, Jim 83:08
Scharffenberg, Del 82:46
Shopland, Ian DNF
Simmons, Eric DNF
Smith, James DNF
Stroethoff, Karel DNF
Stum, Richard DNF
Swarts, Geoff 85:33
Tanner, Brad 81:51
White, Charles 83:55
Wolfe, Michael 81:51
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Old 01-29-09, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Keep in mind, there are really two separate questions here:
1) What is a randonneur (or "randonneuse.")? A true randonneur is purpose-built and quite specific in its qualities and design.

2) What kind of bike can be used for randonneuring? The answer to that is manifold, with some ingenuity and depending upon what kind of randonneuring experience is being sought. And how you feel the first time your flimsy clip-on fenders aren't up to snuff.
The answer to this question from an RUSA survey seems to be that it doesn't much matter what you choose.

So what were those things that should or shouldn’t be done in order to ensure successful arrival at the finish line? It is far from definitive. What I can tell you is some of the things that it is not. And perhaps a few that might contribute in a small part.

So what did I find? Among finishers and nonfinishers:

• There was absolutely no difference in the proportion of men and women finishers.

• An overwhelming majority of the RUSA members felt RUSA properly prepared them, whether they finished within time or not. Only 8 out of 355 respondents didn’t think RUSA did a good job.

• The types of bikes that were ridden had no bearing on the finish rate.

• There was no difference in age.

• The level of French comprehension had no bearing on whether a cyclist completed the ride.

• The amount of sleep riders gets is always of interest. The finishers got a little more sleep than those who did not. Among the respondents, 40 percent of the finishers got between 4 to 7 hours, 26 percent got 8-11 hours, 19 percent got less than 4 hours, 7 percent got 12-15 hours, 4 percent got 16-19 hours, 2 percent got no sleep and the remainder got more than 20 hours.

• The presence of a crew did not make a difference on the finishing rate.

• There was a relationship between the number of series ridden and whether a rider finished within time. Interestingly, those who did one series did better than expected, while the other groups who reported more than one series did worse than expected.

• There was no difference in the number of 1000k events that riders had completed and whether they finished within time on this PBP. Those who had previously completed one 1200k event did better than those who had done more than one.

• Surprisingly, there appeared to be no difference between the number of training miles ridden and the success of the rider. About one-half of the entrants had completed 5,000 or more miles.

• There appeared to be a weak relationship between doing a brevet series in 2006 and finishing PBP in 2007. If you completed a series in 2006, you were about 5 percent more likely to finish PBP in 2007.

• Tire size was not a contributing factor to success. About a third fell into each group of 23mm, 25mm and everything else.

• Another interesting finding: the type of training did not factor into success or failure. About a third of the riders stated their training was unstructured.

• Nearly all of the finishers listed a reason for their success as personal determination, and they also indicated they will attempt another 1200k. The non-finishers had little common cause for their inability to cross the line within the targeted time.
http://www.rusa.org/newsletter/11-02-11.html

Apparently Jan Heine did an equipment survey for RUSA and published the results in Bicycle Quarterly.

On my only 200km ride, I used a Schwinn Prelude built up with a Tiagra triple, a rear rack, and some Bontrager fenders. It wasn't pretty, but it got the job done.

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Old 01-29-09, 07:23 PM
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I have been spending lots of time searching Rando/Audax/Brevet info just reading and looking at pictures. I will be doing a sort of randonneur build of a different sort, 3 speed fixed. I was looking for a suitable vintage touring bike w/lots of braze ons, canti mounts, rack mounts, and room for bigger tires and fenders. My problem is so many have short top tubes for my size. But, then I ended up buying a brand new Surly Long Haul Trucker for my geared commuting and full on touring bike if I so choose. So that opened up my previous commuter bike, 83 Nishiki Seral to be the fixed Rando build, perfect! It already has a Generator front hub, but I bought another one and will lace that one up to a CR-18 and the Sturmey Archer S3X 3 speed fixed hub will get another CR18 rim. The build will be something single chainring square taper crankset, fenders, 700c x 32 tires, canti brakes, Nitto M12 front rack, generator front hub, S3X rear, generator light mounted under the top of the Nitto rack, big French style Handlebar bag (like Berthoud, but cheaper), bigger seat bag (my Acorn), and maybe a smaller rear rack. The entire drive train on it now will be changing. The tires, tubes, fenders, stem, bars, seat, seatpost, canti brakes, frame,fork, and headset will stay.

Anyone want to wast lots of time looking at Randonneur bikes/ride pics go here http://www.flickr.com/groups/classicbicycles/

And a few real Rando bikes, both from Coho cycles:



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Old 01-29-09, 07:35 PM
  #48  
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This list of bikes that have been tested by Bicycle Quarterly is interesting. Not all randonneurs, but many are (with pics):

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/biketests.html
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Old 01-29-09, 08:19 PM
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Hey Redxj, I thought about doing the same thing with my Nishiki International when I bought my LHT, but I needed money more as I was spending a lot to equipe my LHT with "THE BEST" including the surly front rack, Phil hubs, DT swiss Rims, WTB bars etc... so I sold it. In anycase, my question is, are those 180mm rivals on your seral? I got em on my Cross bike, not the best cranks in the world but the most affordable 180mm option!
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Old 01-29-09, 08:20 PM
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Grim
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Originally Posted by kpug505 View Post
The French (we are talking about a French sport) preferred front loads and designed the geometry of the bike to suit that. The rake of the fork and headtube angles are different than just about every bike out there....They are very purpose built.

The link with an explanation:
http://www.momentumplanet.com/ecstat...anic/what-fork
After reading that and looking at a couple of my bikes a full rigid Mountain frame is in line with the geometry of a "Randonneur". So if you took a modern rigid with 700's would be desirable. It has the higher BB and less rake forks. It has the more vertical seat and head tubes and the longer wheel base.

As an example here is my M400 made Hybrid in front of my T700 Touring bike.
If I put a set of 26x1.5's Drops and a 52/42/26 crank set with a tight cassette it would be nearly ideal. Basically swap the drive train off the Touring onto it. It would end up about 24lb. You know a early 90's 720 Trek (more of a hybrid unlike the 80's that was a touring) with drops would be a good frame to build on. It has the desirable geometry, cantilevers, big triples and 700x32c's
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Last edited by Grim; 01-29-09 at 08:23 PM.
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