Paint? Chrome?
 

So I have this falcon track bike I'm restoring. It is currently chrome, but the chrome has seen better days. The decals are also pretty gnarly. Some joker drilled a hole in the fork, and there is a couple spots with some very light surface rust. Surprisingly the lugs have no chips, but the fork crown has some rust.

What are my options when refinishing? I know these bikes also came in a light blue, which I would prefer over chrome. Am I losing anything by painting it? Was chrome somehow more rare, or more valuable than the painted models. I'm not planning on selling it any time soon, but I'd hate to do something stupid and regret it. What are my options on fixing the drilled fork? Is powder coating even an option? And lastly, if i did paint it would leaving the lugs chrome be a bad idea, since I'm pretty sure it didn't come that way.

P.s. Sorry about all the questions....I just want to do this right.
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/8...lcon001qf5.jpg

Personally I have always wanted a fully chrome bike. But that's just me.

You have several options. I don't think anything would really decrease the value, and what does it matter anyway, if you're going to keep it? Make yourself happy before anyone else. Repainting it would be a solid choice. Keep in mind you'd probably want to get rid of that rust first. But by painting it, you could always strip it back to chrome. Option two would be to just remove the surface rust. This can be done several ways, and I think you best do your research. Many people will tell you to use super fine steel wool, and I have seen some fabulous results. However, others argue that you are damaging the chrome by doing so, and will undoubtedly post some online guru that swears you're removing all the layers of micron thin chrome! But I'm not going to start a debate. Your third option would be rechroming. If I had the money, I would choose this route. However, it is very expensive.

Hope this helps. Beautiful bike you have there.

Thanks swif. There are certain areas, by the bottom bracket shell for example, where it appears certain layers are missing. To describe it the best I can, it looks as if at one point the top layer peeled off, and then a little bit closer to the BB another layer has peeled off, and at this point there is some oxidation. Keep in mind these are very small areas, but I'd love to freshen it up. Is chrome substantially more expensive than a good paint job?

Most cost effective way to refinish properly (other than rattlecan etc) is to beadblast and powdercoat - easily achieved for less than $100USD

Chroming im not sure about though.

+1 beautiful bike. I personally think it would be a mistake to paint over the chrome. Also, I think a painter has to etch the chrome to prepare the surface for paint, so the chrome would never be the same if you did strip the paint later.

Chrome bikes seem to be both rare and sought after, I think even a nice paint job takes away the stand out quality that a chrome bike possesses.

The good news is that the rust is very easy to treat, and I would recommend not using steel wool. Steel wool is abrasive and can leave tiny micro scratches in the chrome, I know this because I have done it.

In my opinion, oxalic acid is the hands down best treatment for your frame. I use it on my own bikes and have had great results. When you soak a frame in OA, it removes all of the surface rust and any rust that may have been inside the tubes. You basically just mix the concentrated OA with water, put your frame in to soak for half a day or so, wipe it with a soft sponge and then neutralize it with baking soda. It may sound involved, but it is the least labor intensive method I know of. Do a search on Oxalic acid to get the specifics, and make sure to wear gloves, glasses etc.

A simple method, get some turtle wax chrome polish and a hefty dose of elbow grease. The chrome will shine up to it's full potential, and it is non abrassive.

If you still want a painted bike, send me that one and I will send you one of my painted bikes ;)

Oh yeah, this thread is a potential powder keg.... just remember, were all friends here....right?


Matt

I have read that chroming can be very very expensive because there is a ton of prep labor involved.

+1 Keep the chrome. Use the oxalic acid treatment.

Vintage chrome bikes sell for a premium over non-chrome bikes. Why go to the expense of lowering the value of your bike? And to get paint to stick to the chrome, I bet they are going to have to ruin it.

+1 Keep any abrasives away from cleaning chrome. Chrome is applied in a thin layer on bikes. There isn't enough there to sacrifice part of it to clean up.

+1 Although the acid treatment looks like a lot of work, it is not. The acid does all the work for you. Just set it and forget it. I tend to use fairly dilute acid, so I will treat parts for one to two days. The rusty fenders in this picture will be treated for four days.

I am currently treating several bikes myself right now. The pic shows my kiddie pool (I built a dam in it to make it smaller and conserve on oxalic). In the bath right now is a frame, three forks, two old Schwinn cranks, an old fender, and a few other misc parts. In the small container are a headset, quick release, and a few fasteners.

I have five more frames to treat.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/...1b949dce_o.jpg

:lol: A kiddie pool full of acid may have the FBI wanting to talk to you. Great idea with the dam, very fitting too, it looks like there is a cartoon beaver on the pool

edit, nope it looks like a sea horse now

Ok all this sounds great, but I'm not really sure what the benefit of the OA bath would be. I know that some of the plating is missing/peeled off. Is this something I would just want to do before bringing to the chromer? or is this just a good way to brighten up chrome? What am I looking at as far as price to re-chrome?

also, think about it this way:

whatever is unique about your falcon will blend right in once painted. It just becomes another painted or powdercoated frame, not so different from any other frame with similar geometry and lugging. full chrome is very unique.

seems the bath is for preserving your old chrome. if you bring it to the chromer, probably no need to do any prep work yourself. in that case, I'm guessing you could bondo the holes drilled in the fork, or even have them fill it with braze, and then chrome over it.

I know for sure bondo would work under paint. Not sure how it would react with chrome. Anyone know the answer to that?

Bondo would not work under chrome.

I'm not sure that brazing would either. Can anyone answer that? how about welding....can the fork crown be welded (i know the tubes cant, but the crown should be thicker right?)?

What tubing on your frame built with? If it is a Reynolds 531 frame, then I don't think you can weld it because the high temperatures would weaken the tubes. I don't understand why brass brazing would not work, that is how the steel tubes were first joined, right?

There are some former frame builders lurking around here that would know. John Thompson comes to mind, I would try and see if he chimes in.

Oxalic acid will eat any and all rust but will not fix damaged chrome. It sounds like the chome is flaking down to the layer of nickel? I am guessing that a good chrome job would be over $500.00, but I honestly have nothing to gauge that against.

I will dig up some pics of chrome I cleaned up with OA.

Ok, I here are some things I used oxalic acid on:

Before:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/...5d306f7f_o.jpg

After:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/...a75eaa11_o.jpg

This crank was really rusty, which caused some pitting in the chrome, there is nothing you can do to repair that.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3038/...e7a907fc_o.jpg

Chrome can be applied to brass silver or nickle (the most common fillers). Are you trying to fill the rust pits?

PS: mkeller, that turned out really good!

Maybe this should be its own thread, but has anyone ever used citric acid for rust removal? I did a web search, and it seems to be used successfully by collectors of woodworking planes. I know everyone here likes oxalic acid. I've also used it with good results, but I'm just uneasy about it's toxicity, especially when it comes to mixing up enough of it to dip a frame--I don't like the idea of dumping 75 gallons of it onto the ground or into my septic system. I'd much rather use citric acid, which as I understand it is essentially non-toxic (I know, I know, EVERYTHING is toxic in sufficient quantity). If it works and won't wreck paint, obviously. Anyone here tried it?
JV

Thanks, that one was a gift for my friend.

I have seen people use acetic acid (vinegar) with very very good results too. You may consider that as an option.

No....i am trying to fill a hole that some knucklehead drilled in the fork.

How do you dry the inside of your frame once you remove it from the pool? It seems like you'd want to dry it quickly so as not to invite more rust. Do you use baking soda? How do you get the recesses of the frame dry? Compressed nitrogen?

Has anyone tried THIS? Wet aluminum foil. Rub over corroded/rusted areas. Seems to emulsify the crome and lets it fill pits & scratches. Removes corrosion. I have a 1962 Schwinn JaguarIV and had it re-spoked. Now the spokes were nice and shiney, but it REALLy made the rims look awful. So I tried this old chrome trick and the rims came up beautifully! Being nearly a half-century, naturally, the chrome was gone from a few spots and they didn't come up great. But since they were smaller than a match head, and not TOO numerous, the whole thing came up looking VERY nice. Try it and see. Won't restore to mint condition, but if you're looking to greatly improve you chromes's appearance, worth a shot.

to be honest i think fully chromed bikes look cool.
if it's chrome now, i would spend the extra bucks and get it re-chromed.
my super mistral came with tired chrome forks but the rear triangle was still surprisingly sound.
i've stripped the paint, but found a nearly new chromed front fork made by "tange" for £5.

but i've gone through the chrome versus powerder coat.....and i am settling on powerder coat. colour unknown.

go on re-chrome it! you'll be the envy of everyone and feel much happier for doing it too :)

wow mkeller, those are some great results. this thread has inspired me to at least try oxalic on this fork. it is pitted but i'd rather have the original than a replacement.

a few questions:

- how necessary is it to neutralize the solution with baking soda?
- how much oxalic and water is necessary for a fork?
- how did you manage to dry the inside of the fork?
- what kind of preotection did you put over the pitting to keep it from rusting?

thanks,
dan

Thanks, I have switched to using vinegar for the most part. I still use oxalic acid for bigger things like forks and frames though. I'll try my best to answer your questions

thanks for the quick reply. ok, vingear i have readily available. oxalic and baking soda i'd have to buy. i'm in no rush, so i'll give vinegar a try. do you dilute it? most rust is actually gone already from polishing the fork. i just need to get to the pitting. as seen in the pic the bare steel is a bit darker.

I've used lemon juice and also Coke. They work. Oxalic acid works better, but if you're concerned about the toxicity, and there's plenty of reason for that, you can work a little harder with citric acid.

Don't know where you are from, but if you opt for rechroming the whole frame set once you get the fork "fixed", I know in Cali you can get the frame set done for under $300. I'd keep it as is for now and the when it gets worst I'll then have it rechromed of painted depending on what my likes are at that time.

i went to the chroming place and they wanted 70 euro for the fork. that included chemically stripping, rechroming and polishing. it isn't that much but considering that new chrome forks go for less than half it just feels wrong. plus i cannot really tell if there is pitting. it only looks like the chrome plating has rubbed off. i don't want to re-chrome a pitted fork no matter how original.

anyhow, i just ordered some oxalic acid so here are more questions:

- should i only do the bath outside?
- how would one dispose of an already neutralized solution?
- if it pretty diluted can you dump the solution in the toilet?

sorry for the ignorance. i checked all possible threads, but nobody offered a sound disposal solution.

Oh my, what an exciting topic !! Anybody to explain why lemon juice would remove oxydation (unless really superficial) and not the the chrome ?

If anybody wants to get really deeply involved in the many mind-boggling complexities of artefact restoration, most of the techniques being applicable to bike restoration, there are some good sites out there :)

Electrolysis is an intersting way of removing rust very locally if proper lo-voltage systems are used and the technique and dangers are fully understood. (meaning danger to humans playing with the stuff, such as electrocution, gas emanation induced death, and others).