johncr62

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could help me get more info about my dad's old bike.
Here's what I know: Stem: Ambrosio, Breaks: Balilla Brevettato, Chain rings: Magistroni, Front Derailleur: Huret, Rear Gear Changer: Simplex, Peddles, Lyotard(?), Seat: Tenax.
What I don't know: Brand, Model, year, where to get parts, Good chrome/paint shop.
Please take a look at my pics posted here:
https://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee160/johncr62/

Any info would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Thanks!!!

retyred

Well I don't know what it is but I like it. What is the name on the headbadge? Also what is that yellow decal on the seat tube? I'm going to guess late '50s to very early '60's. I especially like the internal cable routing. I would check for date codes on the components. I remember someone mentioning that Magistroni cranks had date codes. Good pics. Should clean up nicely. OK I'm going to bench myself and watch the big boys knock this one outta the park!

Gary Fountain

I'm guessing an Italian brand - Constante Girardengo - I would guess the build date to be around the late 40's, perhaps even the early 50's. It was common to see Italian bikes with French components as Campagnolo was only just getting established.

Constante Girardengo was, I believe, Italy's first 'Campionissimo' or 'Champions of Champions'. He was probably the world's top cyclist in the '20's.

I would say that your dad was quite a bike rider with a bike like that. He really knew his bikes.

Definately worth doing up - could take some time but worth it. I would be trying to maintain as much of the original surface finishes as possible.

Don't throw anything away!!!

I have to bench myself too.

T-Mar

Very intersting derailleur combination, a Simplex Super Competition front derailleur mated with a Huret Allvit on the rear. The Allvit is an early to mid-1960s model, on the basis of the cover and 4 cage spring settings. The Super Competiton was produced from at least 1949-1970. So, the question is whether the mismatched derailleurs indcate the Huret is a replacement for a Simplex plunger type, in which case it is proabably a 1950s model, or was it a custom build by the OP's father, in which case it could be 1960s?

Gary Fountain

Intereting question about the derailleur combination. Still, it looks like an early 50's bike. The rear spacing (tyre to seat tube) does look a little close for that era though and the internal rear gear cabling is interesting. Wingnuts, the cottered cranks all add up to an interesting bike.

Is dad around to ask questions of? You state that it's a 60's frame. Did you get the year info. from dad?

retyred

I did some poking around on the web and found that your bike was made by Girardengo and his sons during the '50's-'60's. No mention was made of different models. At Classic Rendevous I was unable to view any pictures as page couldn't be found. At this point it appears you have a real piece of cycling history. A vintage Italian bike made by a great cycling champion.

John E

I strongly suspect you have a 1950s bike originally equipped with a bandspring/plunger Simplex rear derailleur. (Is that a Simplex downtube shift lever?) Since these reverse-shift Simplex units worked so dreadfully, many (most?) 1960 and 1961 Schwinn Varsities and Continentals ended up with Huret Allvit transplants, which reduced their value to collectors while enhancing their value to those who actually ride them.

vjp

Great looking bike! So cool that it was your Fathers and my only advice is that is a common newbie mistake to jump in and have the bike refinished. It is worth much more just cleaned up and adjusted. Take your time and research the marque, go slow and you will be happy that you left it original.

evwxxx

Friend of mine had a Girardengo back in the mid-70's. He had acquired it in the late 60's I believe. Interesting thing we found out about it at that time was that they were apparently manufactured with prison labor in Italy. I guess that was better than making signs and stuff like ours do! This particular bike also had a seamed seat tube, frame material unknown.

stronglight

Interesting front changer. Those actually worked fine... within limits. They were most happy only shifting between chainrings with a 4 to 6 tooth difference - as you have on your bike. But that was not really an issue for racers back in those days and they were used mainly on racing bikes. The shifting would be "half-step" style. This means you would alternate between a change on the front followed by a change at the rear. This is actually a very efficient use of the gears. With a 5-speed freewheel you would have 10 distinct different increments. And this would keep you closer to your optimal gears at a given cadence. --- This is the same advantage today of having 10-speed cassettes on modern racing bikes versus 6-7-8-or 9... just additional middle-gear increments to keep a racers legs spinning at their most efficient rate.

The drawback of the gears on that bike (which was typical) is that you really had to have strong legs. Think of racing in the Alps using a Lowest gear with 48 x 24 teeth - thats around a 54 inch gear for steep mountain ascents [ouch!] --- Personally, I think everyone should spend time riding a bike with that set-up just so we'll appreciate what Pro racers like Anquetil had all used during the 1950s. ~ And to REALLY appreciate our modern effortless STI/ERGO shifters.

Very nice piece of racing bike history you have there! Definitely save it and slowly, carefully, clean it up... If you get it out on the road, you'll really increase your admiration for your Dad.

johncr62

Firstly, I'd just like to say thank you sooooo much to all of you folks who took the time to do the research on this bike. I am extremely grateful.

retyred: the yellow sticker, from what's left of it, refers to some sort of national (USA) bike club membership.

Gary Fountain: Ahh the 1st one to come up w/a brand name for me, you the man!! Actually, as my dad tell's it, this is his first and only bicycle that he ever owned. He bought it from a friend at work who was into cycling. I honestly can't ever remember seeing my dad ride this bike. It mostly hung up in our garage as I was growing up, and I was always told to stay away from it.

Other than having a high level of tarnish (rust) it is complete, however the stem is broken and a couple of spokes are broken.

T-Mar: Wow, I guess you don't need me to tell you that you know a lot about old bikes.

Gary Fountain: My dad, thankfully is still around, but all he can tell me is he bought it from a friend and never rode it much.

retyred: Thanks for the additional info. I did a search on Girardengo and found a picture of a non-painted version of the "head badge". Very Cool!


John E: Yes, the shift lever is a simplex.

vip: All I've done so far is try to clean it up. I was surprised to find how much rust could be removed and how much the chrome and aluminum could be shined up. The paint and some chrome parts are quite bad. So I should forget about a new rechrome and paint job???

evwxxx: I guess if I was in the big house I'd rather make cool bikes than break rocks or cut weeds. I don't think it has a seamed seat tube, I'm not sure. As far as the frame, I don't have a mass spectrometer handy but it feels like standard steel tubing, definitely not aluminum.

stronglight: Thanks for the riding tips. Now I'm inspired to get going on the fix-up.

ALL: If more pictures would help any of you come up w/more info, just ask and I'll post them ASAP. Also I've removed some of the parts for cleaning so the details stand out more.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND INFO, YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!!!!

John E

Here is a copy of your original rear derailleur:

https://classicrendezvous.com/France/...implex_TdF.htm

Almost anything is a good upgrade, particularly when one considers not only shift quality and accuracy but also the fact that the normal-low shift pattern will throw the chain into the spokes if the cable snaps or slips.

"stronglight" is correct about half-step gearing, which was the only way to make horizontal action front derailleurs and short-cage rear derailleurs function properly. I still use such a system on my Peugeot UO-8 and on Capo #2, but in both cases with a bit wider gear range afforded by an "ultra" 6-speed freewheel:
45-42 / 13-15-17-20-23-26 and 49-46 / 14-16-18-20-23-26. I have seen 1960 Capos with knee-busting 52-48 / 14-16-18-20-22 factory gearing, which is too stiff for my tastes and local hills.

I would be curious to know the tooth counts on your cogs and chainrings. It looks something like 50-47 / 14-16-19-22

johncr62

Very impressive. You called it, the chainrings are 50-47 and the cogs are 14-16-18-20-22.

Thanks for the link for the original rear derailleur, I wonder if any other original parts were replaced?

Sixty Fiver

All I can say is that you have a lovely bike there and can't wait to see it when the tarnish is knocked off and things are polished up.

The Competition is a nice front shifter and it is likely that if the bike dates to the 60's that the rear Simplex went south (cause they aren't that good) and was replaced with a better derailer.

iab

FWIW, here is a 40s/50s Giradengo track bike as a reference.

https://www.myoldbicycle.com/bikes/16

dbakl

Interesting bike, I had one Girardengo I sold some years ago. If it were mine, I'd carefully disassemble, rub out and wax the paint, steel wool all the steel parts and put it back together with new grease and cables! I'm never bought the prison labor story, the frame of the one I had was identical to a same period Olmo I have. I think yours is 50s.

Search for Girardengo pics, the Aldo Ross bike was restored by me, though he changed it since it was mine:

https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/main.php

John E

Given that it is a late 1950s Italian bike, I think an old Campagnolo Gran Sport would be a good rear derailleur for it. 50-47 is a great chainring combination with a 2-tooth progression on the rear cogs, although you could get good ratios and a bit more range with a 14-16-18-20-23 (been there ... done that on my old Nishiki) or even a 14-16-18-21-24 cogset.

John E

Concur.

You are probably correct, but I hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Concur. I think the 1960-61 Schwinn Varsinentals were about the last bikes to use the obsolete Simplex derailleur set, and that was only because Lucien Juy had underbid the Huret brothers by $1.27. Keith Kingbay, a retired bicycle racer, Frank Schwinn's parts manager and father of the derailleur-geared Varsity and Continental, took care of the price disparity by getting the Hurets drunk over a martini-and-steak dinner in Chicago[1], and the 1962 and later Varsinentals used the superior Huret Allvit setup.

[1] Berto et al., The Dancing Chain

iab

I'd love to see close-ups of the brake levers and calipers, stem and handlebars. Would it be possible for you to take more pictures? Thank you.

johncr62

Thanks again for all the great information. I've uploades a bunch of new pictures, some of which show some cleaned up parts. One of the main things that I would like an opinion on is current condition. You can get a better idea w/some of the new pics. What should be rechromed. For example, should I rechrome the break lever purches? Rims? Frame corners? Should I repaint the frame? Is the best place to get any replacement parts ebay? I need to get a new stem, since this part is broken on my dad's bike.

https://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee160/johncr62/

Thanks for all the help.

el twe

I'd opt for keeping the frame in as-is condition, just clean it up. I'd also recommend rebuilding the original wheels to alloy rims. It'll be lighter and greatly improve braking.

Gary Fountain

Thanks for the photo's. Personally i'd just clean it up, chrome and all. If a part is to be replaced (stem, rear derailleur), ebay is the place to look. With a bike of this rarity, you have to be prepared to play the waiting game, it will be worth the wait though. Perhaps you might even find some replacement decals to help give it back its identity (buy only after research). I spent 6 years looking for the right parts for a bike of similar vintage.

I think your bike would be worth more if the originality is preserved. I would suggest that a re-chrome and a re-paint is the last option.

Love your bike and best of luck,

Gary.

John E

Concur. KoolStop brake pads, new brake cables, aluminum rims. If you ever find a good deal on one, I still think a Campagnolo Gran Sport rear derailleur would be a nice touch.

iab

I agree with everyone, clean it up and get aluminum rims, Nisi, Fiamme or Ambrosio would be a good match.

What's wrong with the stem? It looks to be a fine example of an Ambrosio, it even has the original domed binding bolt, nice.

Another quick question, the cable adjustment screw on the brake caliper, is it plastic or aluminum?