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good frame to build up?

Old 03-29-09, 10:53 AM
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cupcrazy4
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good frame to build up?

I was looking for an old frame to build up, and ran across this. I figure I can get it down $100. I just want a decent frame that I can build up. My mechanic skills are woeful at best, and I'm hoping that by building up a frame into a complete bike by myself, I'll improve my wrenching skills.

So, is this frame worth $100? And, will it be hard to find parts to build it up?

edit: also, I'm not sure if this affects anything, but I'm thinking of going with friction instead of index shifters.
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Old 03-29-09, 10:57 AM
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looks like a bad paint job.
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Old 03-29-09, 11:09 AM
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Bare frame builds get very expensive unless you already have a parts stash or donor. Consider tearing down a complete bike and building it back up to learn.. I've see local CL bare frames going for 50, 20, even 10$. After doing the math, I realized it doesn't matter how cheap they are, I'm still better off paying more for a complete bike. Advice from someone has who built up two bare frames recently..
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Old 03-29-09, 11:21 AM
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That's pretty high unless it's your favorite bike, and even then it's still high. There's a guy locally that sells his frames at $30 for aluminum or chromoly, $15 for gaspipe, and $10 for anything else and kids bikes. I think even that is too high for a bare frame unless it's my exact size and a desirable bike, both of which he never has. If I had more time I'd buy all the decent ones and pop them on ebay, but I don't want to get into that.
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Old 03-29-09, 11:26 AM
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Your wrenching will come easier if you start by overhauling a complete bike. All the parts are the right size and in the right place already. You'll just pull things off, clean and regrease them, and put them back. You won't have to figure out if your new parts will fit(threading and such)will work. Trust me, you'll be frustrated enough just figuring out which tools you need if you're just getting in to mechanics. Buy one of the $70 tool kits and you will have most tools for working on C&V stuff.

sheldonbrown.com is your friend...
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Old 03-29-09, 11:54 AM
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seems like a lot to spend on just a frame. I spent that much on my Raleigh and it was a complete working bike. +1 on finding a complete bike to tear down and build up...you'll already have parts that fit, which can be a real pain to locate sometimes depending on what you are working with.

it seems to me like 70's era Japanese Road frames are the easiest to source parts for given that they are mostly built to a standard that it easily available still. Raleigh's on the other hand with the 26tpi parts can be a freakin Pain when your sources are eBay and the interwebs.
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Old 03-29-09, 03:57 PM
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hmm, sounds like getting a complete bike is the way to go.

Any thoughts on this? $350 sounds a little steep to me
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Old 03-29-09, 04:09 PM
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Cheap frame. Cheaper paint.

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Old 03-29-09, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cupcrazy4 View Post
I was looking for an old frame to build up, and ran across this. I figure I can get it down $100. I just want a decent frame that I can build up. My mechanic skills are woeful at best, and I'm hoping that by building up a frame into a complete bike by myself, I'll improve my wrenching skills.

So, is this frame worth $100? And, will it be hard to find parts to build it up?

edit: also, I'm not sure if this affects anything, but I'm thinking of going with friction instead of index shifters.
By your own description on your mechanical skills, I think building up a frame is a really bad idea.

If you want to learn bicycle mechanics, and don't mind dropping a couple of hundred on decent bike tools, then you should consider buying a couple of junker bikes first. Tear them down, rebuild them, donate them or sell them, then buy a couple of more,
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Old 03-30-09, 12:21 AM
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no, no, no. Unless you have parts hanging around, it will cost you $300+. If you have a jones for vintage, buy something with some of the parts. If you want to go SS/FG, replace a back wheel, chain, and bottom bracket on a complete bike.

Buying a frame is fine if it is a frame you have been after, but know that you will end up buying the parts one by one from the same guy who sold you the frame and who realized his bike was worth more in parts than intact.

CL has plenty of good, complete bikes with horizontal dropouts.
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Old 03-30-09, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by riva View Post
Bare frame builds get very expensive unless you already have a parts stash or donor. Consider tearing down a complete bike and building it back up to learn.. I've see local CL bare frames going for 50, 20, even 10$. After doing the math, I realized it doesn't matter how cheap they are, I'm still better off paying more for a complete bike. Advice from someone has who built up two bare frames recently..
Yes, my "projects" end up costing way more than seems possible. Fun has its price, I guess.

That is a very bad paintjob on the Peugeot. If it still had its original parts it might be worth $100. I'd pass.

Toronto is a very large place; should be lots of places to get frames for less.
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Old 03-30-09, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cupcrazy4 View Post
hmm, sounds like getting a complete bike is the way to go.

Any thoughts on this? $350 sounds a little steep to me
Yes, too high.

What sort of bike do you hope to have? Road bike, singlespeed/fixed gear?
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Old 03-30-09, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bbattle View Post
Yes, too high.

What sort of bike do you hope to have? Road bike, singlespeed/fixed gear?
+1 Too high.

Start with a target type of bike and size. Then figure out what a fair to great price would be. Then finally, pounce when one shows up on Craigs List/thrift store or garage sale.

I have done that several times. Others are pondering "is it a good deal" while I am picking up the bike.

Its really pretty straight forward, once you know your size and style you are looking for.

Just be open to a lot of good brands. My basic guidelines: alloy rims with quick release, cotterless three piece alloy crank set, down tube shifters, cromoly frame (name brand is best). Should be able to find something like that in your size for a reasonable price. I buy any of the good Japanese brands from the 1980s (Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, Lotus, Fuji, Bridgestone, etc), along with Trek (usually USA made). They have a good value for the price right now.
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Old 03-30-09, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bbattle View Post
Yes, too high.

What sort of bike do you hope to have? Road bike, singlespeed/fixed gear?
I'm looking for an old, steel road bike.

Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
+1 Too high.

Start with a target type of bike and size. Then figure out what a fair to great price would be. Then finally, pounce when one shows up on Craigs List/thrift store or garage sale.

I have done that several times. Others are pondering "is it a good deal" while I am picking up the bike.

Its really pretty straight forward, once you know your size and style you are looking for.

Just be open to a lot of good brands. My basic guidelines: alloy rims with quick release, cotterless three piece alloy crank set, down tube shifters, cromoly frame (name brand is best). Should be able to find something like that in your size for a reasonable price. I buy any of the good Japanese brands from the 1980s (Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, Lotus, Fuji, Bridgestone, etc), along with Trek (usually USA made). They have a good value for the price right now.
Problem is I don't really know what a 'fair' price is. I mean, don't components also affect the bike's worth? I don't really know anything about the value of older components. Just to help me understand, why is the Santini bike overpriced? How can you tell how much it is worth?
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Old 03-30-09, 08:23 AM
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If you don't have the time or tools, I've taken a frame and a donor bike (nice but wrong size) to my small, local bike shop. For the price of a tune-up (may $60-$70), they swapped parts and completely set up the new frame in ride-off condition. This can be done with the right frame with decent donor parts.

However, for you - it sounds like a complete bike is the way to go. Check out the e-bay and craigslist finds on C&V to learn. You also can not go wrong with the above advice on japanese brands. For a french bike like the Peugeot, threading can be non-standard - so a complete bike is usually best.
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Old 03-30-09, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cupcrazy4 View Post
I'm looking for an old, steel road bike.



How can you tell how much it is worth?
As far as value, e-bay completed auctions are easy to view. There's also a separate thread on bike values. You likely will not have the exact bike - so e-bay completed auctions should give you a sense for market value.

As for components - the more bikes you look at, the better sense you get from components. If you see something nice (i.e. suntour superbe), then search the forums to learn some. It takes some research...
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Old 03-30-09, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jtarver View Post

sheldonbrown.com is your friend...
I find the Park Tools website a good resource too.
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Old 03-30-09, 09:03 AM
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I've got a nice '84 Bianchi "Limited" lugged steelie I'd like to sell. Im in northern PA. PM me if you are interested.
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Old 03-30-09, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cupcrazy4 View Post
Problem is I don't really know what a 'fair' price is. I mean, don't components also affect the bike's worth? I don't really know anything about the value of older components. Just to help me understand, why is the Santini bike overpriced? How can you tell how much it is worth?
The Santini is only overpriced because the paint is chipped and it is likely well used. Rims are v ery important when buying a used bike. If the rims have irreparable hops and dips, the wheels may need to be replaced before the bike will function well. Since a quality wheelset costs north of $140, the value of a nice old bike is greatly reduced by a damaged wheelset. With good paint and round wheels, that bike would likely be worth the asking price.

Now I look for even better deals. People giving something away at a steal. The kind of craigslist ads that you have to call first and be on your way before the ad gets taken down because the poster has been swarmed my phone calls. Watch cl close enough, and you'll find one of those bargains. Or the ones that sell next day, and the owner gets a healthy response because the price is right. Watch cl carefully for a couple weeks and you'll see a few of those.
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Old 03-30-09, 10:53 AM
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Cool, thanks for all the input. He says the rims are in "great shape" and it's probably a 1990. I like the look of the bike, so I'm going to offer him $200 for it (hopefully it's not too low and offends him...). If he turns me down, I'll be keeping my eyes glued to CL.
Also, I've always wondered: why do some older bikes' brake cables come out of the top of the levers, while some bikes have the cable come out of the inside of the lever? My old steel bike (now a fixed conversion) had the cables out the top and I hated it (not to mention the brakes had zero stopping power ), so I'm determined to buy a bike with cables on the inside of the levers.
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Old 03-30-09, 11:00 AM
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Like wrk says, you should be able to score a half-decent complete 80's Japan bike for your original $100. On the cables exiting the top, thats just how brake levers were back then.
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Old 03-30-09, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cupcrazy4 View Post
why do some older bikes' brake cables come out of the top of the levers, while some bikes have the cable come out of the inside of the lever? My old steel bike (now a fixed conversion) had the cables out the top and I hated it (not to mention the brakes had zero stopping power ), so I'm determined to buy a bike with cables on the inside of the levers.

When the cables come out inside the brake levers they call them "Aero Brake Levers", when the cable comes out the top its "Non-Aero". Really there is little performance difference between the two, the crappy Non-Aero brakes you experienced were likely the fault of some component other than the levers. Probably crappy or poorly adjusted calipers or crapped out brake pads.

The choice between the two is mostly aesthetic.
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Old 03-30-09, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by deez View Post
When the cables come out inside the brake levers they call them "Aero Brake Levers", when the cable comes out the top its "Non-Aero". Really there is little performance difference between the two, the crappy Non-Aero brakes you experienced were likely the fault of some component other than the levers. Probably crappy or poorly adjusted calipers or crapped out brake pads.

The choice between the two is mostly aesthetic.
Yeah, your stopping power probably suffered from bad brake pads or steel rims or both in combination, not the non aero levers.
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Old 03-30-09, 06:05 PM
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Don't like it. It looks like a cheap frame with Peugeot badge. A french frame (if it is Peugeot) could be a pain in the butt to find all the parts for. Could have a weird blend of french, English, or even swiss(not likely) threads.
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Old 03-30-09, 07:06 PM
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If you are really interested in getting a nice vintage steel bike, stick with the Japanese models. Their prices (values) are relatively low right now, compared to bikes from other parts of the world. Secondly, they used pretty standard parts and components, very easy to find replacements, no special threading, etc.

If you want to learn about values, just scroll through the many pages of valuation comments on this forum and start reading the threads. Decent cromoly framed bikes with alloy rims, alloy cranksets and downtube shifters, with no defects, are in the $150 value area. Over $200 value will likely have higher grade components, with indexed shifting. $300 plus will be more modern with brifters. Touring bikes are more. There are more collectable brands that have higher value. If you are on a tight budget, unless one falls in your lap cheap, you are better off with one of the good, somewhat generic Japanese brands: Univega, Panasonic, some Schwinns, Miyata, Bridgestone, and more.
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