Help identifying this frame!
 

Bought off a guy who was doing a thesis on classic bike decal typography, and needed a mock-up for images - hence the Colnago stickers on a clearly non-Colnago bike. Nice lugged steel frame (possibly German??) with drilled dropouts the likes of which I've never seen before.

Any clues would be greatly appreciated. Cheers in advance, Thomas

A thesis on classic bike decal typography?

Good lord...

That's the best excuse for a faux Colnago scam I've ever heard ...

"officer, these are just specimens from my thesis on miniature engraved portraits of dead US Presidents..." ;)
but seriously folks...it's an interesting track frame, never seen those ends before. What does the seat cluster look like and what about the fork ends and *threading* of the BB and HS? Why do you think "possibly German"? Oh yeah, and seat post diameter?

Well just like what Jermy Piven's character in the movie PCU said, DROZ;

"You can major in GameBoy if you know how to Bull5h!t..."

#1: That's got to be the wildest excuse I've heard yet.

#2: If you believed that story, you win the weekly gullibility prize.

-Kurt

Posting pictures of cluster and fork ... threaded head tube ... measuring seat post ...

to the begrudgers:

I'm a lecturer in Visual Culture. The thesis writer/bike builder hailed from Germany, himself, so I was thinking that, in all likelihood, the frame didn't travel very far.

More to come

I hope that the thesis writer does not have to lecture on his thesis, for there will be a very bored and indifferent classroom if he intends to do so (this coming from a fellow who doesn't mind font study himself).

-Kurt

Nope, just a written submission that allows him to cater for his interests. Necessary,writing-oriented evils on otherwise art-production based courses. If they get to write about something in which their interested, the tedium of reading the results is lowered appreciably...

Back to the bike, per above, 27.2 mil seatpost, threaded bb, and the fork is here:

Cheers to anyone who might be able to give me a lead on this,

t

(with picture this time...)

well, now that the smoke has cleared...looks to me to be from the 30's or 40's, based on the construction and the fork crown...a real track bike. the wheelbase is very short, or maybe those wheels are 27" rather than 700c? The seatpost size would imply a non-metric frameset, like reynolds. What size are the bottom bracket cups?

Hmmm, I wouldn't say it's *that* old: the crown looks elderly, and the pencil stays put it back in a certain time period, but the long point window'd lugs don't look "30s-40's" to me. I was hoping for something *engraved* or stamped on the fork ENDS...but at least you provided one measurement (27.2) so how about the BB and fork steerer? You'll have to remove the (Campy Pista, anybody?) headset to determine the steerer particulars, but I bet the BB info is just stamped on the cup...did you look on the underside of the BB shell for any markings? Any on the top of the shell?

'70s frame mated to an earlier fork?

-Kurt

Nothing on the fork ends (that would make this job a lot easier), nor is there any serial number on the bb. They're 700c wheels, as everything attached to the frame I really wouldn't classify as 'vintage'. Literally all I have to go on are the lugs and the drilled dropouts which are too well done to seem like somebody's after thought.

I based my original age guess mostly on the fork - but the frame looks like the workmanship matches...and the workmanship is very good. The thin stays and fork legs were popular throughout the 50's, though, so extend that date range.

I just wasted 30 minutes or so looking at rear dropouts on the internet. I kept running into pictures of Victoria Pendleton and now I'm all distracted.

So I'm gonna see what's going on in Road Forums.

Cheers for furthering this along, (I've been looking at dropouts for months now...), perhaps I'll just stick to (g)oogling Ms. Pendleton as well .. less of a head wreck.

Out with the nitromors and through about four layers of paint revealed the bottom of the bb shell to be stamped:

WG57

RY
311963

Any ideas?

Cheers.

-thomas

(here it is):

[edit] front fork also stamped with same number:
W
G
3
1
1
9
6
3
R Y

I figured I'd give this one last shot ... completely stripped back down to steel. Through a number of layers of paint came up with a stamp on the lug on the head tube. As well, the serial numbers matching (save for the '57') on the bb shell and front fork is complicating the whole old fork/newer frame possibility. I'm stumped. Anyone?

I believe that stamp identifies those lugs as Bocama.

Cheers.

The problem here is that this could be the work of a small builder (one with excellent workmanship). That certainly looks like a date, doesn't it? 3/1/1963. And the size, 57cm. My guess is that RY is the brazer's initials...WG?

Oh, I guess that I have to eat that 30-50's date range, too, huh?

And that is the Bocama lug stamp on the front.

oh, and it is excellent that the fork and frame numbers match...and that lends a little more credence to the guess that RY belongs to the brazer (a lot of manufacturers used that a a little QC...see some Masi's made in America, and some of the early Trek's as examples.) The forks were assembled in batches, and got no such individual workmanship/ownership decrees.

So, if so, that leaves you with WG as a clue to the manufacturer, perhaps.

Apparently, these ends are on a Rickert track bike in a museum in Germany! As well on velospace, there is another Rickert track for sale with this front fork - a bit fancier than mine but still a plate fork crown. Anybody know what a Rickert serial number looks like?