except for the fact they they look so much nicer and are easier to set up. Most people Don't race, so that extra weight for the hardware is irrelevant. Plus, to me they are like nice fenders, they add a ton of class and style.

I'm going to try that with a Weinmann 999.

-Kurt

I actually used Mafac Racers when they were current brakes on the market, and I continued using them until the early 1990's. I prefer the Campy dual-pivot brakes I have on my bike now. Much more stopping power, and pretty clean looks to boot. And they centre just the same as the old centrepulls did and stay centered... simply by making sure they are centred when tightening the bolt through the stay or fork crown. Not fenderable though. If I had to use full fenders without converting to 650B wheels, I would just use an ordinary sidepull brake (rather than dual-pivot).

Can someone define deadband, and why the crappy pivots in Weinmanns effect it?

My apologies to fixie riders who may have been offended by an association with Paul Products or me, Paul Bosman.

While I appreciate the comments on lack of lateral stiffness in the old brakes, something that the Paul's look pretty good about, I still hope to understand the mechanics (and I mean that in a physics-simple machines way of bicycle brakes.)

I'm not a mechanical type, but I suggest you look up google. You will find that not all brakes have the pad approaching the rim surface the same way, and the more cable you have to pull up on, as in cantilevers or centrepulls, the mushier the braking gets. It may or may not matter, but it does matter if you do some real road riding with descents. There's a reason the centrepulls didn't make it past the 1960's on racing bikes.

Deadband refers to the property of a mechanism wherein it has low or no mechanical stiffness over a certain range of motion. Outside this range of motion, the stiffness inherent in the (brake arm) becomes dominant, however, inside the deadband there is little/no stiffness. It is usually caused by "slop" in the mechanical interfaces between components making uip the system.

For example, in brakes, the pad cannot apply force to the rim until the brake arm is bearing on the sides of the pivot. Depending upon the amount of play in the pivot bearing, which is subject to growth from wear, this can require a significant amount of movement of the arm (and brake pad) to achieve.

The Weinmann brakes used to have plastic bushings in the pivot points. These would wear (rapidly) and the slop would increase with use.

The movement of the arm/pad also results in a change in the angle between the brake pad and rim surfaces. This motion is not evident if you do a static alignment of the pad to the rim. It can even lead to brake squeal if the pad becomes tow out rather than toe in.

The older version of the same brakes said Dura Ace on them. I have a set of those. They're copies of weinmann 610's, but nicer.

I believe the reason that centerpulls were not used on racing bikes after the early '60s is mostly due to weight. And Campy sidepulls were probably at least a little better than any centerpull available at the time for low clearance geometry.

The Pauls on that strong don't look right. That's certainly not the way that Paul intended that they work.

I don't see why you would use the v brake cable style on a TT bike. A centerpull would be better because the cable is not as exposed to the wind.

The Campagnolo was a better made brake. The shorter brake arms, just by virtue of their smaller size (all by itself), meant the Campagnolo brakes performed better than the Weinmanns, Mafacs, etc. No one was interested in clearance for fenders on their "racing" bikes.

In all seriousness, the old centerpulls worked very well and any weight difference between them and the Campy sidepulls was negligible. The only real problem with the centerpulls was that it was often completely impossibly to adjust the squeal out of them -- and that squeal could be unbelievably loud; the kind of thing that made every pedestrian on the block turn to look at you.

The other "problem" was that the Campagnolo brakes ended up being part of a "gruppo", which in turn ended up on the bikes of the huge majority of the pros -- two things that Mafac couldn't do. So sidepulls became "better" by default.

I put a set of the Paul Racers on my Paramount. I cannot tell you the differences in the physics between them and the Weinmann's they replaced but I will tell you that they stop the bike quicker and with more control than the original brakes.

They are also available in a nutted version (non-recessed mount) and do not require that you drill your fork or seat stay bridge if you are using an older frame. They also have enough reach for a 27" to 700c conversion. You can pick them up much cheaper on ebay than buying them new.

[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ar13/077-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/bylar13/057.jpg[/IMG]

EDIT: I also lowered the straddle wire hanger since this pic was taken and that too helped improve the braking.

ah, but one disc to rule them all!

just need to pare a leetle more lard off'n 'em...

That photo of the hybrid centerpull inspired me to do some quick experimentation:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/weinmann_alternate_2.jpg

I started a new thread for the results and revisions: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=526725

-Kurt

fender1, what rims are on that Paramount?

One word...ParraPulls.
VeloBase.com - View Component Detail
VeloBase.com - View Component Detail

Here's the Dura Ace slash Tourneys. This bike stops like an 80's mountain bike, with the original shoes! I sanded them off, and they were good as new. Nice performance for an old centerpull. No wobble on the pivots either, makes Weinmanns look sloppy by comparison.,,,,BD

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...cycledone1.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...cycledone2.jpg

I hit the button once! I swear, lol.,,,,BD

Are those the kind that mount on the bridge or the canti/u-brake studs? It's hard to tell from the pic? Either way, they look great. Very nice bike.

Bridge, no doubt.

-Kurt

I have a pair of Shimano Tourney center pulls on my city/commuting bike. They work great and their main strong point is modulation. They have an awsome feeling when you just want to slow down a tiny bit or go full power. Main drawback is raw power: Vees and well ajusted cantis are more powerful. Also, the power improved drastically when I changed the pads to Vee type brake pads (+ way easier to changer the pads after that).

Would like to try Paul's version though. They sure look sharp (the price is rather sharp too...). Anybody has enough time on the Paul Racers for a review?

Pics of the Tourney:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/...b01dcb1f95.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3373/...233d9007c0.jpg

i also have those Shimano Tourney brakes. they work fine, and have great modulation, but i hate setting them up. i can never seem to rule out squeel with shimano cartridge v-pads im currently using.

im very tempted to set them up like cudak888's hybrid centre pull, as the hanger flexes when under heavy breaking, and slow undoes my headset bolt. i also run my cable under the bartape and it could provide a smoother break line.

Sorry for the minor highjack, but what is a pass hunter?

Mike, the rims are Salas Delgado's, 36 holes 700c.

Thanks for the tip. I am looking for some rims.

One more question, if I may. Are they Delgado or Delgado Cross? I looked on their web site and found only the Delgado Cross in 700c, 36 holes. The Delgado is listed as a 26" rim.

DELGADO™ CROSS

• 700c version of the Delgado, excellent choice for cyclocross and 29ers
• 22.5mm width, pinned and sleeved,
  515 grams
• 32 or 36 hole, ERD 604
• Eyelet spoke holes
• Machined brake track
• Black or Silver
• WARNING – Do not use with tubeless systems. This rim is designed for use with a tire and tube

DELGADO™ 26"

• 22.5mm width, welded seam 420 grams
• 32 hole, ERD 543
• Black
• WARNING – Do not use with tubeless systems. This rim is designed for use with a tire and tube

WOW Kurt, I knew you had an awesome Campagnolo collection - but although I've seen Campagnolo Deltas before I've never actually seen a Campagnolo Vainquer 999 model! Nice touch!!!

LOL :lol::lol::lol: