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Old 10-18-19, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
I still don't understand how the value of these bikes was/is determined. Frame is nothing special, components are nothing special, tech is old-school - and the admission price is $3500?



Bianchi L'Eroica

DD
Looks like the kind of deal that I'd toss out there as a pulse check for the market demographic. We as consumers are always focused on what WE WOULD pay for something, but rarely do we take into consideration what others are after. This bike has hipster cash written all over it. This bike might not sell in the willywags of NH, but might fetch a tidy sum in Beantown or NYC.
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Old 10-18-19, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by machinist42
And so I'll rant.

The "front rack" appears to be a rear rack cobbled onto the front.
That's a Schwinn front rack but I believe it's from a 26" bike like a Typhoon and has been "cultured" (bent) to fit hence the odd angle. The bent frame would add a little to that but not that much.

Edit: They also made the same "Rat Trap" front rack for the 27" bikes with longer legs so I still suspect this is one from a 26" bike.

Other than that I totally agree, that is also not Schwinn purple, looks more like Chrysler "Plum Crazy".
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Old 10-18-19, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by NoControl
Looks like the kind of deal that I'd toss out there as a pulse check for the market demographic. We as consumers are always focused on what WE WOULD pay for something, but rarely do we take into consideration what others are after. This bike has hipster cash written all over it. This bike might not sell in the willywags of NH, but might fetch a tidy sum in Beantown or NYC.
They are actually very nicely made bikes. Frames come out of Reparto Corsa. Well finished. Components are limited run, ten speed, downtube shifted stuff that looks and works well. List on these was $4500 at one point and not many have been made. So worth $3500 today? Debatable. Was discussed at great length several years ago on this very forum. Some like 'em, some not so much.

Full disclosure: I purchased one of these at the Eroica auction in 2016, a complete in size 57 for my oldest grandson's Bar Mitzvah- he just turned four. In nine more years, hopefully it will fit him. Then in 2017 I won the auction on another 57 bare frameset, built it up with late 70's NR and donated it to the Eroica auction in 2018...where it brought in about $3K. Took it to the LBS to get the steerer trimmed and the whole shop went bananas for an hour. Never seen anything like it, and I bring in some pretty exotic stuff for them to peruse.

But wait. In 2018 I also won the auction on yet another bare frame, this time in size 55. Just in case the grandchild turns out to be shorter than expected. If not, well, by then I'll be 77 and maybe short enough to make it a really nice upright city bike.
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Old 10-19-19, 03:25 PM
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https://eugene.craigslist.org/bik/d/...002873356.html

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Old 10-19-19, 04:21 PM
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What acrobat? That's a nice Surly!
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Old 10-19-19, 04:56 PM
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^^^^^^ New advances in biodynamic fitting up there in the PNW, eh?
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Old 10-19-19, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 2cam16
What acrobat? That's a nice Surly!


Not my ad, of course. However, the problem with stolen internet photos is that it can take a while to track them down, especially if reposted a number of times.

As far as I can tell, probably Courtney Giannone:

https://www.courtneygiannone.com/about.html
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Old 10-19-19, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK


Not my ad, of course. However, the problem with stolen internet photos is that it can take a while to track them down, especially if reposted a number of times.
That was a joke,Cliff.
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Old 10-19-19, 05:55 PM
  #17809  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
I still don't understand how the value of these bikes was/is determined. Frame is nothing special, components are nothing special, tech is old-school - and the admission price is $3500?



Bianchi L'Eroica

DD
-----

IIRC member @Oldairhead purchased one of these and rode it in an Eroica event about two years back. It passed muster with event officialdom.


-----
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Old 10-19-19, 07:51 PM
  #17810  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
I still don't understand how the value of these bikes was/is determined. Frame is nothing special, components are nothing special, tech is old-school - and the admission price is $3500?
Well, I hesitate to respond to this post since this bike seems to draw such polarized responses. Most people either love it or they hate it, but I suspect that the haters have not actually ridden it. In these days of $10,000+ bicycles I don't see that a retail price of $4000 is out of line for a new niche bicycle. I think this ad reflects a pretty optimistic price but hey, the market will sort it out and the guy will either sell it or keep it! I personally hope he gets his price!

I purchased mine (#17) in 2016 and have ridden it in 4 Eroica events. I paid under $3000 for it new at my local shop (which is not hard to do)! The bike is not perfect (out of the box) but it is not hard to make it better. My efforts towards improving the bike are reflected in this blog post, Refining the Bianchi L'Eroica.

I'm not going to argue that you can't find a better bike for less money, but you would be hard pressed to find a better "new" bike, which is Eroica compliant, for less money! It does puzzle me however that so many people seem to be offended by an homage to the era of classic bikes. Others might say that since it has a 10 speed cassette it shouldn't qualify for L'Eroica at all! Well, the bike does meet the current rules so I don't see the problem.

BTW: I saw Tom Ritchey at the top of Cypress Mountain at EC one year. He was riding in clip-less pedals (against the rules), but he had a toe clip and strap attached to his shoe. Seeing him walking around with clips and straps on his shoes was hilarious! I guess the rules police would have had a fit, but what are you going to say to Tom Ritchey?
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Old 10-20-19, 12:22 AM
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FWIW, I looked up the original price on the Bianchi L'Eroica. It was $4000+, and while that might equate in price-point when compared to a top-of-the-line $10,000 bike today, the main difference is in value for money. That's why I personally don't get the very large price; there's just no way there was 4k in that frame and those components. To me, the price is silly for what amounts to a niche bike of low-spec for artisan money.

This is just my opinion. We can still have those, right?

DD
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Old 10-20-19, 06:23 AM
  #17812  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
FWIW, I looked up the original price on the Bianchi L'Eroica. It was $4000+, and while that might equate in price-point when compared to a top-of-the-line $10,000 bike today, the main difference is in value for money. That's why I personally don't get the very large price; there's just no way there was 4k in that frame and those components. To me, the price is silly for what amounts to a niche bike of low-spec for artisan money.

This is just my opinion. We can still have those, right?

DD
I'd feel comfortable offering $1200 for that bike, and if it looks as good in person as it does in the pic, maybe as high as $1500. This would be for personal use of course.
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Old 10-20-19, 08:15 AM
  #17813  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
FWIW, I looked up the original price on the Bianchi L'Eroica. It was $4000+, and while that might equate in price-point when compared to a top-of-the-line $10,000 bike today, the main difference is in value for money. That's why I personally don't get the very large price; there's just no way there was 4k in that frame and those components. To me, the price is silly for what amounts to a niche bike of low-spec for artisan money.

This is just my opinion. We can still have those, right?

DD
I mean that bike is pretty and easy on the eyes but I ain't paying that kind of money for it. Certainly some folks happily would but I would rather build up a C&V bike.
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Old 10-20-19, 10:54 AM
  #17814  
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Where can one find the "rules" for Eroica rides? I thought the whole point of them is that, except for consumables, the frame / major components had to be _made_ BITD.
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Old 10-20-19, 11:16 AM
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I believe the target demographic for that bike is the rider who rides modern equipment, isn't used to working on their bikes and has more money than time available to prepare for Eroica. I suspect it does a decent job of hitting the target Bianchi aimed at, though obviously isn't perfectly representative of the vintage era, and induces some eye rolling among the cognoscenti.
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Old 10-20-19, 11:47 AM
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If I can go on eBay France and buy a complete Singer or Herse in good condition for $2000-4000 at any given time, I don't really see a point in dropping $3000-$4000 on a "retro" Bianchi with Taiwanese "Bianchi"-branded components, Zona tubing, and cheap tubulars.

This is similar to how I feel about people who spend $200 on a Velo Orange crankset, which is a cheap-looking copy of a Stronglight 49d crankset that can be had on eBay for $70-$100. Boggles my mind.

I get that not everybody has the time, knowledge, or skills to buy and maintain old stuff, but still.
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Old 10-20-19, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread
If I can go on eBay France and buy a complete Singer or Herse in good condition for $2000-4000 at any given time, I don't really see a point in dropping $3000-$4000 on a "retro" Bianchi with Taiwanese "Bianchi"-branded components, Zona tubing, and cheap tubulars.

This is similar to how I feel about people who spend $200 on a Velo Orange crankset, which is a cheap-looking copy of a Stronglight 49d crankset that can be had on eBay for $70-$100. Boggles my mind.

I get that not everybody has the time, knowledge, or skills to buy and maintain old stuff, but still.
What you aren't accounting for is that we here are a bunch of bike dorks for whom the mechanicking and wrenching, part shopping and research is part of the hobby.

I don't think you know just how far from the world of most cyclists we are.

They don't even know different groupsets that are modern and on the bikes they and their friends ride regularly.
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Old 10-20-19, 08:06 PM
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Asking at least 3 times the market value for a Fuji Tiara.
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Old 10-20-19, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronsonic
I don't think you know just how far from the world of most cyclists we are.
We're talking about a bicycle specifically designed (actually, more like specifically marketed) to qualify for Eroica rides, which, by definition, are "far from the world of most cyclists". If this bike is targeted at some "mainstream", I seriously wonder whether there is a mainstream audience for such a bike.
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Old 10-20-19, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
Where can one find the "rules" for Eroica rides? I thought the whole point of them is that, except for consumables, the frame / major components had to be _made_ BITD.
This is from the Eroica website although I suspect there are more detailed rules for qualifications than this somewhat simple list.

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Old 10-20-19, 11:42 PM
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^^^^^ So a bunch of arbitrarily selected characteristics, but nothing related to the bike's actual history. Bar-end shifters have been around since... what... the '70s?, but not allowed? My '86 Ironman, which was assembled brand new with aero brake levers, would not qualify? But a $4000 ersatz replica, with 10 cogs that stick out like a sore thumb among true C&V road bikes, does? Forget about the fact that Look pedals were around years before the arbitrary '87 cutoff year. And you gotta love the requirement of toxic (pre-BPA-free) water bottles.

BTW, based on photos I've seen, all these rules don't seem to have stopped participants from fiddling with their smart phones while "in character". Maybe they should require those Velveeta-box-sized phones with the bigeffin' telescoping antenna.
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Old 10-21-19, 04:37 AM
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Here's a good one. The humor is in the wording.

https://cosprings.craigslist.org/bop...002163728.html
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Old 10-21-19, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
^^^^^ So a bunch of arbitrarily selected characteristics, but nothing related to the bike's actual history. Bar-end shifters have been around since... what... the '70s?, but not allowed? My '86 Ironman, which was assembled brand new with aero brake levers, would not qualify? But a $4000 ersatz replica, with 10 cogs that stick out like a sore thumb among true C&V road bikes, does? Forget about the fact that Look pedals were around years before the arbitrary '87 cutoff year. And you gotta love the requirement of toxic (pre-BPA-free) water bottles.

BTW, based on photos I've seen, all these rules don't seem to have stopped participants from fiddling with their smart phones while "in character". Maybe they should require those Velveeta-box-sized phones with the bigeffin' telescoping antenna.
Kinda sticks in my craw as well, plus the fact that pre-'87 Cannondales are excluded outright because ... they're far too common, but "rarer" aluminum bikes built by Alan and Vitus are.

Any registered cyclist who arrives at the start line or found on the route on the day of the ride with a bicycle/components that do not conform with the criteria set forth by the event organizers may face an immediate disqualification upon discovery.
Historical Bikes (also called Bici Eroiche, in Italian) are all road racing bikes built in 1987 or earlier, with or without gears, as those built in the late 1800ís and early 1900ís. These bicycles most likely have a steel frame, but also other types of rare frames are permitted, such as the aluminum frames built by Alan and Vitus, with screwed or glued joints, the Exxon Graftek frames of the late 1970ís with carbon tubes glued to aluminum lugs and Teledyne Titanium frame set made in the 1970's and some aluminum frames that were built in the 30's.
To me, their rules make zero sense, but I guess if someone sets up a group ride for department store bikes, and arbitrarily excludes anything built by Huffy, that's their right, but such an organizer runs the risk of looking very arbitrary and capricious in their nonsensical "requirements". But hey, if they can get enough people to show up, more power to them.
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Old 10-21-19, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
^^^^^ So a bunch of arbitrarily selected characteristics, but nothing related to the bike's actual history. Bar-end shifters have been around since... what... the '70s?, but not allowed? My '86 Ironman, which was assembled brand new with aero brake levers, would not qualify? But a $4000 ersatz replica, with 10 cogs that stick out like a sore thumb among true C&V road bikes, does? Forget about the fact that Look pedals were around years before the arbitrary '87 cutoff year. And you gotta love the requirement of toxic (pre-BPA-free) water bottles.

BTW, based on photos I've seen, all these rules don't seem to have stopped participants from fiddling with their smart phones while "in character". Maybe they should require those Velveeta-box-sized phones with the bigeffin' telescoping antenna.
Yes, agreed, seems rather Euro-biased. If they are going to say 1987 or earlier are legitimate, any and all should be as long as they ostensibly remain as built and not updated with later non-allowed tech. The 'loose' aluminum rules and the bar end thing are odd as well as the requirement that one has to use straps. I get the quick release or clipless thing but what if you want to just use straight pedals?

I did read somewhere that they are supposedly relaxing the aero lever thing...
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Old 10-21-19, 07:00 AM
  #17825  
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Originally Posted by madpogue
^^^^^ So a bunch of arbitrarily selected characteristics, but nothing related to the bike's actual history. Bar-end shifters have been around since... what... the '70s?, but not allowed? My '86 Ironman, which was assembled brand new with aero brake levers, would not qualify? But a $4000 ersatz replica, with 10 cogs that stick out like a sore thumb among true C&V road bikes, does? Forget about the fact that Look pedals were around years before the arbitrary '87 cutoff year. And you gotta love the requirement of toxic (pre-BPA-free) water bottles.

BTW, based on photos I've seen, all these rules don't seem to have stopped participants from fiddling with their smart phones while "in character". Maybe they should require those Velveeta-box-sized phones with the bigeffin' telescoping antenna.
Later on, there is a specific list of rules that are supposed to be complied with. I think it says that your bike can miss something like 1-3 of the rules on the list (so it can be newer as long as it's got toe clips and downtube shifters) or can have flat pedals as long as it meets all the other rules or something like that. At least that's the way they used to be the last time I looked for the rules and decided my bike broke too many of them and that I didn't have the money/time anyway. Or maybe that was another "classic" ride.
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