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When are my Bikes "Vintage"

Old 04-17-09, 07:48 AM
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When are my Bikes "Vintage"

Hi Everyone I am just curious as to when a bike becomes 'vintage' and what makes it 'vintage'?
my pride and joy is my 1990 Bianchi Proto with Campy Chorus. do I need to wait another 10 yrs? or do I need to put some super record parts on it? maybe Mafac brakes *giggle*. I do normally have highflange hubs on it. could my RIGI be vintage too? it has some super record parts along with Delta brakes and Colnago carbon downtube shifters and highflange hubs. just some food for thought.

Trina

PS the Proto is on top
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Old 04-17-09, 08:11 AM
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<10 years, not vintage.
>20 years, vintage

Inbetween those numbers, grey zone.

If it just feels like an old/worn example of a modern bike, it isn't vintage. Or, to paraphrase Duke Ellingtion, "If it feels vintage, it is vintage".
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Old 04-17-09, 08:41 AM
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The Bianchi isn't what I'd call vintage but qualifies as KOF due to it being lugged steel.
The Rigi is.
You can talk about either one here as we have no hard and fast rules about bike age etc.
Now before East Hill can pipe up.
Where are the detailed pictures of your bikes? I'd especially like to see the Rigi as they are
not all that common

Marty
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Old 04-17-09, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
the bianchi isn't what i'd call vintage but qualifies as KOF due to it being lugged steel (snip)
KOF? Haven't seen that one before.
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Old 04-17-09, 09:24 AM
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Kind O' Fun
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Old 04-17-09, 09:25 AM
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Knock Off Fake
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Old 04-17-09, 09:25 AM
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King Of Fads
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Old 04-17-09, 09:32 AM
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Around here the unwritten rule is more or less kind of pre-STI/Ergo or pre-'91. It gets blurred because alot of us retro mod our older bikes by using newer components.

The line also gets blurred when any valuation inquiry for a bike more than 6 months old gets dumped over here.
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Old 04-17-09, 09:33 AM
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Krappy Old F##k
Kind Old Fart
Knarly On Friday (That's vintage with a silent 'K'. 'G' is not old enough to be vintage.)
Kream Of Frosting
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Old 04-17-09, 11:59 AM
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I'll have to find my pics or take new ones. Bianchi Protos were not lugged they have some of the finest fillet brazing you will ever see but not ground and sanded flat like a cannondale. the Rigi is a nice head turner as no one notices it unless you get off it. I actually traded a turbo saddle for the frame and Gian Roberts front derailuer.
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Old 04-17-09, 12:22 PM
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what a bunch of newbs ( insert laughing or smiley thingy here).
KOF Keeper of the Flame (as in Richard Sachs, Brian Baylis etc.)
Its a bike that lives up to the spirit of C&V, new components on old frame
the Colnago Master X-light.

but in my case it's Krusty Old Fart
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Old 04-17-09, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
The Bianchi isn't what I'd call vintage but qualifies as KOF due to it being lugged steel.
The Rigi is.
You can talk about either one here as we have no hard and fast rules about bike age etc.
Now before East Hill can pipe up.
Where are the detailed pictures of your bikes? I'd especially like to see the Rigi as they are
not all that common

Marty
Too late.

Are there photos? We really like photos .

East Hill
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Old 04-17-09, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by East Hill View Post
Too late.

Are there photos? We really like photos .

East Hill
Don't post photos. Keep 'em guessing.

This message is a service of the Keep East Hill Depressed and In the Dark Liberation Front (KEHDIDLF).
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Old 04-17-09, 06:15 PM
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I'd like to see some pics too....Can you get a shot of that Gian Robert derailleur just for me? I have a shifty bits fetish and that brand is pretty uncommon...Is it a Campy Nuovo Record clone?
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Old 04-17-09, 06:43 PM
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Nice bikes...

and Welcome
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Old 04-17-09, 06:49 PM
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It really depends on who is talking. At a "Vintage Picnic" a while back, I think they decided that anything older than 1985 qualified.

I've noticed a lot of people have a very specific class of bikes they call "vintage and classic". Which is okay, except they need a better name if they get too specific. For example, is a 1984 Huffy "vintage and classic"? The age qualifies, but it's not what a lot of people mean when they use the term. I think part of it has to do with the speaker's age, too. Some of the local C&V people had a dinner a while back, and most of them were not much older than my kids, so to them, a 20-year-old bike is old, therefore, "vintage". I look at the same bike and to me, it's still a New-Fangled 10 Speed- it's those old Schwinn cruisers that are Vintage and Classic, not the danged 10-speeds. (At the C&V picnic, I took my Worksman Front-Loading Tricycle, which is not what most people visualize as C&V, either.)
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Old 04-17-09, 06:50 PM
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When the original tires begin to ferment - it's vintage.

Don't sweat it. We won't deny you access privileges because a couple people think your bike isn't old enough.
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Old 04-17-09, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
When the original tires begin to ferment - it's vintage.

Don't sweat it. We won't deny you access privileges because a couple people think your bike isn't old enough.
We're fairly easy going, even though East Hill does get just a tad depressed when she is denied her photos .

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Old 04-17-09, 08:53 PM
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Is classic older or newer?

I'd say newer, but am already depressed that bikes I grew up riding qualify as 'vintage'.

When did that happen?
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Old 04-17-09, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bcoppola View Post
KOF? Haven't seen that one before.
"Keeper of the Flame" IOW, a modern bike built in the traditional manner.
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Old 04-17-09, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
The Bianchi isn't what I'd call vintage but qualifies as KOF due to it being lugged steel.
Marty, we're going to banish you to the CR list!
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Old 04-17-09, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Around here the unwritten rule is more or less kind of pre-STI/Ergo or pre-'91. It gets blurred because alot of us retro mod our older bikes by using newer components.

The line also gets blurred when any valuation inquiry for a bike more than 6 months old gets dumped over here.
+1...I'm with Jim on this one.

Tell me really, what's different about a high-end Italian bike from 1990 and a high-end Italian bike from 1960? Not much really. I've often wondered about some of the arbitrary dates that are banied about. Sure there was indexed shifting and clipless pedals and aero brake levers somewhat earlier but the really high-end bikes destined to become classics pretty much still came with old school gear. Campagnolo wasn't at the forefront of technological innovation but they were still at the head of the Pro Peloton. I think a 1990 Bianchi Proto with Campy Chorus would certainly qualify as C&V. STI/Ergo is where I draw the line and that's around 1992. Throw in TIG welding and uni-crown forks and you're pretty much modern.
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Old 04-18-09, 07:38 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Kommisar89 View Post
+1...I'm with Jim on this one.

Tell me really, what's different about a high-end Italian bike from 1990 and a high-end Italian bike from 1960? Not much really. I've often wondered about some of the arbitrary dates that are banied about. Sure there was indexed shifting and clipless pedals and aero brake levers somewhat earlier but the really high-end bikes destined to become classics pretty much still came with old school gear. Campagnolo wasn't at the forefront of technological innovation but they were still at the head of the Pro Peloton. I think a 1990 Bianchi Proto with Campy Chorus would certainly qualify as C&V. STI/Ergo is where I draw the line and that's around 1992. Throw in TIG welding and uni-crown forks and you're pretty much modern.
The dates bandied about aren't necessarily "arbitrary" just because it's hard to pin down when a line was crossed. Those dates may be imprecise, perhaps even very imprecise, but there's a difference between imprecise and arbitrary. When discussing this stuff, I think people tend to get too hung up on equipment and components. For many of us, vintage is cool because it means hand-built, using a set of traditional techniques. In other words, the whole issue of craftsmanship is center stage. The difference between a high-end Italian bike from 1990 and a high-end Italian bike from 1960? Maybe all the difference in the world. The bike from 1960 probably involved a great deal more hand labor. The bike from 1990 may well have been brazed on a carousel. The bike from 1960 has lugs that were hand filed. The bike from 1990 probably has investment cast lugs of uniform thickness that required little to no hand work. It's hard to pin down when this shift occurred, sure, rendering attempts to do so imprecise. But not at all arbitrary, if you're trying to articulate the quite substantial differences between hand-built bikes and factory built bikes.
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Old 04-18-09, 07:54 AM
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KOF is, I believe, terminology invented by the KKKlassicrendezvous on (their collective) flatulence: a highly judgmental and moralistic approach to bike appreciation; with a restrictive rule set, a patriarch and a sort of caste system. Think: Iran for bikes. Eschew this approach if you want to have fun.

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Old 04-18-09, 07:57 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
KOF is, I believe, terminology invented by the KKKlassicrendezvous on (their collective) flatulence: a highly judgmental and moralistic approach to bike appreciation; with a resstrictive rule set, a patriarch and a sort of caste system. Think: Iran for bikes. Eschew this approach if you want to have fun.
Wow, a KKK reference. Classy. No judgementalism in your post. I guess rules don't sit well with people who can't self-edit.
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