C&V posture basics?
 

I have been reading about and experimenting with fit recently. When I search the forums about posture I seem to find advanced answers about aero positions and power efficiency which is not quite what I am looking for.

What I want to know is this:

-Can the fit be right, and the posture be wrong at the same time?
-Is the fit/posture on C&V bicycles much different than modern bicycles
-What are the general posture rules?

Currently I have about 1 inch drop from my saddle to my stem. I am not looking for the most aero/aggressive ride, I am looking for comfortable efficiency... posture that can be maintained comfortably for long rides.

I don't experience any pain in my legs or knees, mostly around my neck and shoulders. From what I gather that could be from not properly tucking my pelvis in and arching my back?

I understand there are many variables and it is probably impossible to diagnose over a forum, I just want some advice for to experiment with.

Pictures help...if there are any.

-Matt

This might sound overly simplistic, but I would raise my bars a cm and see if it improves things. I'd keep going up in 1cm increments until you don't feel the pain. Once you get there, and are comfortable for a few weeks, then try lowering a half cm - and work down in small increments like that until you're in the position you wish to be in.

Much work by super capable people has already been done.

Study these:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html

And if you google 'fit posture site:sheldonbrown.com' there are many more links.

I will definitely try the stem suggestion for my next ride.

The thing I didn't understand with Sheldon's page was how he described the posture. He writes that you need to hold yourself up with your muscles not your bones, and that there is a proper way to tuck your pelvis and curve your back. I guess I am having a hard time visualizing what exactly he means.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will re-read Sheldon's links and see if I understand a bit better.

Don't get lost in the details or the semantics.

Seat height to get decent leg extension

Seat fore/aft for reasonable knee over pedal position

Handle bar height for comfortable bend at the waist/hips

Stem length for comfortable reach

90degrees comes into play a lot, 90deg at the hips, 90deg between the arms and torso

Adjust and fine tune for your personal most comfortable and efficient fit.

At least that's what works for me, YMMV

Yeah, I feel like I am close at least. I feel comfortable in and out of the saddle, and I am not getting any pain in my legs or wrist, so I figure that is a good sign. My last ride was 25 miles, maybe I should work on changing hand positions more often.

It is pretty easy to get wrapped up in the details, some sites make it such a science (which I suppose it is)

I was dealing with similar fit questions in September and this thread helped me immensely

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...highlight=stem

as did this article

http://www2.trainingbible.com/joesbl...e-posture.html


As a result I tilted my saddle just a hair down from flat and lowered the height just a scoche, which makes it easier for me to tilt my pelvis to get that good back position. As a result I find I like a longer top tube, and take that into account when I look at how a frame fits me.

+1 on treebound and the last part of the post above.

I basically want the bike to disappear from under me when I ride, so I can spin, shift, and worry about everything else.

My other take on the matter is if you're gonna ride the hoods, fit the hoods. If you ride/fit the drops, the hoods will always be comfortable.

I fit the saddle height and fore/aft position, then lean forward. The bars should "come up" to me without me reaching out.

I consider my fit to be a triangle, with the center of the bb the immovable point. The other two points, for me, are the "weld" spot where my pelvic bones rest on the saddle and the center of the top of the bar. In a perfect world, I'd have the same crank arms, saddles, and bars on all my bikes, but it's not, so I use what I've got.

I try to keep these triangle measurements nearly the same on all my bikes, based on one bike I have that I know is simply dialed in perfectly, even if it's theoretically too big. Somehow, I find it easier on C&V bikes. Maybe because once you get the right length stem, it's only height.

The most improvement I've gotten, fit-wise, has been to go with wider bars. Big improvement in the shoulders and neck area.

To go faster, but not suffer, I simply try to "tip" that triangle forward a bit. Not easy on an oversized bike, but that sort of guarantees you won't be trying to curl yourself out of the comfort zone.

There is tons of stuff out there with geometry and physics and physiology and cats and dogs, etc.
I get confused with that, so I try to keep it simple.

Experience-wise, I've fit maybe 15 people, and then sent them to a bike shop for any more adjustments if needed. You can get a real feel for fit when you ride next to someone and watch them pedal the bike. It's often apparent where they need to adjust.

It takes me about 5-10 rides to get my fit right, and then about 2 months to really dial in the bike, as far as exactly where I want the STI's, tip of the bar, etc. But once it's right, the bike disappears from under you, and the universe is in sync, planets align and all the girls are pretty.

Then, wheel sets and tires make a huge difference. That's a different thread, I'm sure.

If you finish a ride, and all you remember is the spin and the wheels and shifting, well, I'd say you're pretty much in the ballpark.

+1 bar width.

+1 re Sheldon Brown posture advice: elbows near to ninety degrees and wrists and shoulders NOT weight bearing but there for balance only.

Think about this. Whether you ride the drops with them several inches below the seat like a club rider or ride the hoods level with the seat like on a touring bike, proper posture is proper posture wherein your butt and mostly your leg muscles bear the majority of the load--not your wrists or your seat.

Straight arms bearing your weight is an ignorant monkey-see monkey do lazy muscle substitute in the short run guaranteed to inevitably result in sore wrists and shoulders--if not tendonitis.

Get the saddle level. I use a carpenter's level between saddle nose and rear. It will keep your weight from sliding forward onto your shoulders and wrists.

+1 What RobbieTunes said--next time I'm up by the Coastal Plain I think I'm going to go for a fitting myself.

Good job reading the background material. You have all my confidence now.

Then a ride, then an adult beverage. :thumb:

If a rider is in the process of getting into shape, there is such a thing as "the bars are too low" - which could cause neck and shoulder stiffness, even with proper posture. I don't think we have enough info to definitively state what the cause is, but a lot of helpful suggestions have been offered. Hopefully the OP can sort through things and remedy the problem.

For sure, lots of great suggestions. I realize that it is impossible to deliver the definite solution over a forum, but all of the suggestions are very helpful.

Robbie, thanks for the long write up. I did notice when I was out of my saddle climbing that a "disappearing" feeling, it felt like I was on a stair stepper machine or walking up steps.

One thing for sure, I don't think my elbows are bent enough. I set my bike in a trainer today and found a comfortable position to try out for my next ride.

Sorry for the lack of response (I was sleeping), The advice is very much appreciated!

P.S. USAZorro, at about 6'0 190lbs I could stand to lose 15-20 lbs so that does not help.

I hear that. You have 3 inches and 10 pounds on me. :o

Problem is, none of my weight is muscle!

I have improved my diet, so hopefully I should be able to cut that down. No more soda or sugary drinks. Gone are the days of all-you can eat buffets and chimichangas... That box of pop tarts I finished off was healthy though right?

I've found the 15# I've dropped recently makes it much more comfortable to ride in the drops. :)

It's amazing how much bike fit depends on small variations in rider fitness.

5'11+" 190#, 180 is next goal

I lost 24ish pounds last year and it was a huge difference in how I felt in general.... then I put about 15 or more of it back on, hah. And so it goes