help me with this old BSA please
 

Hi all,
I am in NZ
I have just bought a decrepid 28" BSA to eventually do up. why? As a kid, my 1st bike was a second-hand 3/4 frame 26" BSA Starflyer which is still the best present I ever had. At age 11 I broke the rear axle, so bought a spare from my local bike shop and pulled apart the SA 3 speed hub... ball bearings everywhere, but I got it all back together again and it worked for years until I cracked the frame at the head tube because I was a large 70 kg teenager! I also owned a .308 BSA Majestic Featherweight rifle for a while...

Anyway, I bought this bicycle, which I guess is about 1920. It has a DreiGang Torpedo toptube shifter which is broken, and an unusual hub which I assume is the same brand.
It has a 40 spoke rear wheel and 32 spoke front wheel. Both rims are rusted through so they have to go. I dont know whether the hub is usuable or worn.
The hub has a coaster brake and 2 oil filler thingies, both with their little lids still attached.
The frame serial number is 5765, only 4 digits, but I cannot find out anything about early BSA serial numbers. the mudguards are different - the front semi-circular section with a red pinstripe, the rear a more flattened section, plain black.
At first I thought the handle bar to be a later type, but it is quite old with the same diameter throughout.

I thought about converting to modern 700 wheels and a Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub, but this is a bit "off" really.

So, can anyone help me date this bike, offer suggestions for doing it up or otherwise? I think it is too rusty to use unrestored, and will probably paint it black and get some new BSA transfers.
Where the Hell can I get 40 hole and 32 hole 28" rims from?

All help appreciated, Al, NZ

Jeeze mate you got a real mission there,it sure must be a labour of love for you,I spose first things first-strip it apart then re-evaluate,I would get frame blasted then prob powdercoated,try to locate a donor bike if poss,esp for the wheels,(you,d be suprised what you can find at the local tip)dont forget the usual stuff--clean-lube -grease-wax-polish etc etc, and rem-abcd bay can be your friend ! good luck, thats my 2 cents worth, there,s many expert ppl in here that will help you I wish you all the best !

You could go to 700C's and modern brakes as long as they have a drop of up 75mm (theyre are a few on the markst still with washer and nut fitting) for frequent use and still have the correct set up for shows (if thats your thing) You would need to do some research to see if your chanset could run a rear meach and multi freewheel set up, I gave up on that front!

I have emailed two Indian bicycle makers, Avon and Ti (Ti make a BSA) to see if they will sell me parts. Their old-style bikes have 32 spoke 28" front wheels, and 40 spoke rears. So, Bingo on the sizes, just need to see if they'll sell a couple of wheels to a guy in NZ

Does anyone know who a guru for early BSA serial numbers would be? I can't track these down on the net

thanks

The older Fichtel & Sachs "torpedo" three speed hubs were well regarded and the older ones were generally considered indestructible. If that's what you have (as seems likely), you should probably keep it. But you could sell it on ebay. I don't know if the early ones have a date code, but the later ones certainly did; so you may find the bike's date through that route.
There are good internet sources on these hubs, by the way; but I always have trouble finding them since they are in German. Here's a couple:
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/
http://www.3gang.de/3-gang/mod53.htm
You can even get replacement parts:
http://www.velo-classic.de/

What size are the wheels? 28" is not specific enough; read this.

I have found 40-hole new-old-stock Dunlop-style 28" rims, in Auckland, NZ. no 32 hole rims though.

I have managed to find a good contact in Germany via German-language websites who is a guru on old bikes and may be able to help identify the Dreigang Torpedo hub (via the velo-classic site recommended by rhm in the post above - thanks). I just sent an email in English to what looked like the "send message" link on the website, and I struck it lucky.

I will probably get around the 32-spoke problem by having the 32 spoke old front hub laced up to a 40 rim, with care taken to miss out 8 spokes in a symmetrical manner. Any thoughts about this? I think it will be fine.

When I clean the rear hub I will take some decent photos and hopefully find some serial numbers/dates stamped on the hub casing

here are a couple of shots of the Hub cleaned up.

it reads

38 P
"3 Speed"
Torpedo
System Sachs
D.R.P.
Made in Germany

I can't disassemble it yet. On the coaster brake side (lever to stay is removed) there is a large cone which is also like half of a dog clutch, which I removed and replaced. Iside, there is a large race of ball-bearings, which unlike Sturmeys, are held in a cage and don't fall out all over the floor. Very German...

On the sprocket side, I can't get it undone yet - lack of cycle tools. It is unusual - the sprocket, well-worn, looks thick at its inner diameter and I don't think will be replaceable unless I can get parts from Germany.
It does not have a large wire clip holding the sprocket on: the outer ring with the square notch appears to retain it. It doesn't have a thread so I think the key is to undo the inner cone. If my local bike shop can undo it, I will find out...

Contact the Veteran-Cycle Club in Britain, members get access to 'Marque specialists'. There is quite a bit of BSA information available there but not online.

That cog should be threaded and retained by the lockring.

I have the beast mostly apart.
the cone unthreads in a normal direction (anti-C/wise), the the sprocket/outer toothed assembly ('annulus' in epicyclic jargon) comes off and the notched lock-ring unwinds with an opposite thread. The sprocket has three lugs, same inner diameter as a modern Sachs one (in NZ these hubs are used by posties because of the drum brakes), but the catch is, the old sprocket lugs are square-edged, not semi-circles like a modern Sachs, or Sturmey, etc.
So I have to ask my very helpful German contact, who has already located a new-old-stock lever for the broken shifter, if he can find an appropriate sprocket. The modern round-lugged version fits like a glove but has play in rotation, so will flog itself if used in pedalling/braking

pics to follow for those other anoraks who may be interested.

here is the worn sprocket. note the flange, and the rectangle-section lugs

Hi AL, NZ,

try this link to a BSA website, lots of useful info:

http://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/1942-...cle-para-bike/

regards Simon

Al
Did you ever get this project finished, if you did, i'd love to see the results........