What's better than a new Brooks saddle?
 

I have been watching this listing on Ebay since last week. It expires in 3 hours, so here's the text:

Belt Fujita Saddle Mfg Co Ltd, Tokyo, black leather

"Belt" black leather bicycle saddle made by Fujita Saddle Mfg Co Ltd, Tokyo. This looks to be very similar in shape and style to the Brooks B17. Saddle is in good condition with some wear marks on both the front and the rear which you should be able to see in the pictures. The metal rails are clean and without rust and the screw does not appear to have been tightened.

The photos show it to be in pretty much perfect condition, probably never ridden. I was going to bid $65 for it, but it's up to $66 now. I was looking for a bargain, which it isn't going to be. Even so, however, I'm guessing I'm not the only one who thinks a 1980's Belt is at least as good, if not better, than a new Brooks.

Is this because Belt is so good, or do people think the new Brooks saddles aren't as good as older ones?

The two 1980's saddles I have --a Brooks Pro and a Fujita Pro-- have both held up much better than two new Brooks saddles --a B-17 and a Flyer I've bought in the last two years.

At 190 lb I'm a bigger rider, and this Belt just never felt very comfy for me, despite the fact that I loved it from a cosmetic point of view....http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ial+road+racer

This one in your listing looks pretty nice, but I found a difference in "feel" and usable surface area b/w a Belt and a B-17

I like Ideale more than any other saddle....

A new Selle An Atomica. Love it, love it.

What's better than a new Brooks saddle? An older Brooks saddle that has already been broken in to where it is nice and comfy.

-Kurt

I've never owned a new Brooks saddle so I can't say that the Belts are better. I think the interest in the Belt saddles coincides with the renewed interest and acceptance of the Japanese bikes from the '70's. The Belts are now selling on EBay for more than the Fujita Pros were just a few years ago.

Scott

If so, then why are my new ones more broken in, and less comfortable, than my old ones, which are still hard as rock after 25 years?

I agree. I miss the days when nobody wanted them and you could get them for 5 bucks at the swaps.

I've been running a newer B17 on my Cinelli for a few years; still hard as a rock but somehow seems comfortable though... Well, as comfortable as any bike seat!

I have one of the Belts I got for 5. years ago. Seems ok, I've been waiting for the right bike to put it on. Some of the Ideales are very nice too.

Selective purchasing. Some fit the latter of your descriptions, some do not.

Case in point, my B.15 (probably early '70s) remains hard as a rock no matter how much I ride it; yet, the B.17 it replaced (which was roughly of the same era), was nicely broken in and comfortable. Just by looking at and feeling the leather on each saddle, one could get a pretty good idea of the long-term characteristics of either before riding them - the B.15 is unusually thick, and tapping the saddle with the tip of one's finger could be compared to tapping a wall; it does not give. The B.17 on the other hand, was not as thick, and if tapped, a very slight vibration can be felt through the saddle rails.

Of course, this is all armchair theorizing - feel free to shoot it full of holes.

A somewhat rough B.15 just sold on eBay for $23.00 + $16 shipping - and that is considered a bargain today (not that I agree with the pricing). About 10 hours later, a broken-in, but very presentable B.17 (current production) sold for $76.00 + $10 shipping. Ridiculous.

-Kurt

About 10 years ago I bought a mix of new Brooks Pros and B17 from a shop in England on a blowout sale, 4 or 6 of them at just under 40. a piece.

Only thing better than a new Brooks saddle is an old Brooks saddle

The Belt saddle went for $88.43. You could get a new B-17 for less.

Is that the consensus?

Is someone spending this much money on a Brooks knockoff because it's collectible, or because it's a better saddle than a new Brooks?

The only thing better than these is a hancrafted and engraved, NOS equestrian saddle from a master saddlemaker from the 1900's, which you find and proceed to sell to a collector for an exorbitant sum, then buy up lots and lots of nice brookies (swift with ti rails, pro with ti rails, etc,) and keep them all NIB for thirty years, then sell, and retire.

I'd say perceived collectibility or need for an accurate restoration. They are good saddles, but not quantitatively better than a new Brooks. The only area that this may be true is the saddlebag loops, which on the Fujita are punched through and folded down, making a nice rounded surface for the bag strap rather than the somewhat sharper cutouts on the Brooks. Other than that, which is a pretty fine distinction, they don't have any features that make them objectively superior to a new production Brooks.

Not worth it. Not now, not ever.

I cannot recall how much I paid (or traded) for this one, ages ago, but it was less then $25 (either in cash or parts trade value):

http://www.jaysmarine.com/Basso_newsaddle_1.jpg

http://www.jaysmarine.com/Basso_newsaddle_2.jpg

It rode decently, but it was no Brooks. Looked ugly, one side flared up (punching and lacing it might have helped), and it had a second slice of leather underneath to keep it in one piece.

-Kurt

My observation is that the old Belt Fujitas were/are prone to flare out, I've seen this on a number of them.

I believe this is the Belt you sent me in a trade. Even though it doesn't look the best, I do find it comfortable. It was on the Twinn but is now resting quietly in my spare saddle storage area! :o

Do I see stitching along the lower edge of the saddle? That is, it's two layers of leather stitched together? Certainly not a good sign. I have an East German saddle that's made like that, and it's pretty terrible. But perhaps we digress; the one on ebay didn't have that stitching, though the top is clearly reenforced with something, which may or may not be a good sign.

I remember the saddle well enough that I'm quite sure that was a stamped-in design, not stitching. The only second layer on this saddle was the second strip underneath the main triangular section as you describe, and that was riveted in with the main section of leather, not stitched.

-Kurt