Spoke lacing patterns for vintage wheels?
 

Need some advice. Could have posted in the mechanic forum, but I believe we have a wide range of expertise here too. Besides, older posts over there regarding this seems to descend in banter and heated arguments.

So, I'm new to this. I've built a couple of wheel sets, using Jobst Brandt's book which I find to be an excellent, albeit terse and humorless treatise on the subject. His arguments for the various questions and variations in design and component choices makes sense to me. And he's old school and experienced, besides having ridden every single pass in the Alps.

When it comes to lacing patterns he wants pulling spokes emerging from the inside of the flange and mirror-image spoking. He's arguments are that the former pulls the spokes inward under load, thus keeping them away from the derailleur, while the latter cancel out stresses instead of reinforcing them. So this is what I did.

Now, checking out the wheel sets in the shop, I notice other patterns. My LBS, who did the last custom wheels I had built, had the pulling spokes come from the outside of the flanges. Another set has 'identical spoking', which Brandt argues against with some strong points.

What do you guys think about this? "..petty details, just get on that cycle and ride..", or "..damn, you gotta do it this way, or else.."

Picture 1: Inside pulling spokes - mirror image spoking
http://www.fivenineclimber.com/image...lli/spoke2.jpg

Picture 2: Outside pulling spokes - mirror image spoking
http://www.fivenineclimber.com/image...lli/spoke1.jpg

Picture 3: identical spoking - both inside and outside pulling spokes
http://www.fivenineclimber.com/image...lli/spoke3.jpg

>

Jan,

Sheldon Brown had this to say about it:
based on that I tend to lace them with pulling spokes on the inside, it's always worked for me.

Marty

Ive done all three ways and I really don't notice any difference between them all, I am a pretty light rider though. Also if im using hubs that have already been used I usually relace them the same way they were laced previously as I hear thats a good idea regarding flange strength.

inside, from experience w/an upgrade that cught a spoke

On a new hub, I choose to run all torque/pulling spokes heads-out, but on a used hub, I try to conform with the previous pattern.

Being a student of Brandt and Brown I most often lace up my own and wheels for other people with an inside pulling / mirror lacing but do not feel it essential for all wheels and have used the reverse outside pulling / mirrored when there are no issues with a derailer as there is with a fixed gear or three speed.

Sometimes a guy just wants to mix it up a little and I have had no issues with any wheels I have built for myself or an ever growing base of happy customers.

The identical spoking pattern is the easiest to lace up which is why it is seen on mass produced wheels.

They all work but I feel the first two methods provide the most even and symmetrical layout and feel they make for a better built wheel.

You forgot crows foot lacing which was once widely used and still very popular from both an aesthetic and functional point of view but is something you will only see in hand built wheels.

On used hubs you do need to go with the previous lacing as to avoid creating stress risers which can lead to broken spokes and I deal with a lot of nice quality, albeit used hubs as I cannot see discarding perfectly serviceable components.

A great number of my own hubs were used and I can't even remember how everything is laced (too many bikes) but can say that over 10's of thousands of km I have not had any issues.

Great replies. Thanks so far!!

I've never really bothered to even check this. I strongly suspect the importance is greatly exaggerated - provided spoke tension is adequate.

I've always assumed the wheels I have come across were mirrored, but now I'm going to have to look to see if any are identical.

So at least I can say I learned something today. Most days I just forget.

I have a set of used hubs and then some rims I'd like to build up into wheels- correctly.

I don't trust the LBS, would anyone here be willing to do that in the (somewhat distant) future?

Just by the way.

I find the intricacies of wheelbuilding incredible, but beyond me.

-Nick

Outside pulling spokes lacing adds a little life...iinside pulling adds a little faster response time to power input...

...but here's the catch...

...it's a difference that only someone like Lance Armstrong might notice - and I doubt he would really give a damn longevity-wise as his wheels are probably tossed every 1000 miles or so anyway...it's like the difference between .001 and .002. Don't lose sleep over it...

1. Use mirror lacing.
2. Pick outside or inside for new wheels...whatever turns you on.
3. For rebuilds try to go with what was done before - at least make sure that pulling spokes go back into holes used for pulling spokes before.

=8-)

If you are ever in the South Bay area...drop 'em off at Bicycle Express in downtown San Jose. Spoke cutting and sizing services are part of the package. Ask for Chuck.

=8-)

I built a wheel with inside pulling once, and it didn't work well. So I've always done outside pulling. That being said, it may have been some other factor. I always mirror my spokes.

Just built up a wheel for the utility trike here and used a Formula hub (track) and a Sun Rhynolite as it needed a fixed drive to give it a reverse gear and much more solid rear wheel.

Inside pull... it laced up beautifully, as old Rhynolites do.

The way I learned to lace wheels began simply with: Find a spoke that's 2:00 heads-up on the far-side of the hub. I did. I do. Under the tutelage of a guy named Merrill in Oregon, I built my first wheel from scratch right the first time. Later did I find the words of Jobst and Sheldon - both of which were in agreement with Merrill.

I build my favorite way - 3-cross & laced. I have built other configurations. But I never like them as much. And this is what I mostly have seen on the best vintage bicycles.

Almost always 3x on mine also.

banjo - I'd be pleased to help someone out by building up wheels, but I think what you might save in labor would be consumed by shipping.