What do I do?
 

OK, I have a 1974 or 5 motobecane grand jubilee. I was hoping to put a triple chain ring on it. (not as young as I used to be) I had been running a SR 110 BCD with smaller chain rings which seemed to fit OK (good chain line), but the left side kept coming loose. My question is will a campagnolo Mirage work on my set up? Some one gave me one to try, but the literature with is says I need a 110mm axle. Here is what I know about what I have. I know it has a stronglight BB, but I can not find any markings on it other than the axle length which is 118 mm. the axle drive side taper is about 2mm longer than the left side. The cups are loose bearing and right hand threaded.
Here is what I think is right. It is swiss threaded. It is ISO,aka Campagnolo.
Here is what I don't know. Can a 110mm axle be found that will work with my existing cups other than the uber expensive ones at Harris? Or is there some other solution?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, and there are pix.

before you accept as gospel that you need a 110mm spindle, try actually fitting the Mirage with the 118 spindle you have and see what needs to change to get the ideal chainline. Since it has Swiss threading, you may find your best and cheapest solution will be to keep the cups and buy a replacement spindle, whether from Harris or elsewhere, cause the choices are very limited. There's always Phil Wood, but now your talkin' really uber pricey.

I did test fit it before taking the spindle out and it was out there. I torqued the bolt down as hard as I thought I'd dare and there was stil 2 or 3mm exposed on the taper. By eye ballinig it, the inner chain ring was positioned about where the middle one should be. I should have taken a picture of that.

OK, I think I need to make a correction. I was thinking it was swiss threaded, because I was told earlier thats what my year moto had, but according to the Harris web site, if it is right hand threaded on both sides it is french. Is that so??

I'm too quick to hit the submit button. :eek: If the taper on one end of the axle is longer than the other, is that asymetrical?

OK, so after more research and scoping the spindle out with a caliper I'm pretty confident that a 113mm square taper spindle will give me a proper chain line. I thought I had found one on the Rivendell site, but it was JIS, and out of stock. Velo orange and Harris cyclery did not have anything either, except the phil wood spindles which I can not afford. Anyone know of another source for such an item?

So...let's see: did you confirm that you DO have RH threads on both cups? If you do: it's FR.
You couldn't use a Phil spindle in a conventional BB, so that's moot.
VO does have a new sealed FR BB unit in 113mm, it's $48...BUT it's got JIS taper...you might be able to fit your Mirage crank with no problem, but might not, and you'd need to consult Sheldon about how that affects the spindle length. (I can't remember right now).
Otherwise, figure out EXACTLY what works taper-wise on the Mirage, figure out EXACTLY what you need the spindle to measure (ALL 3 measurements: both ends to center AND the center bearing section width) then go shopping for a spindle. Ask for one here in the ISO/WTB thread and hit eBay.
Good luck!

I know the feeling. But, if you look closely, there may be an "edit" button. I didn't see it at first, so maybe it doesn't appear until you've been a member for a while... but one day I looked and there it was, down there to the right... and I thought, hey, what's this? And (wouldn't you know it!) it became my friend.

Hey guys, the taper on a Stronglight spindle is significantly different from a modern Campagnolo crank. I've seen too many people say Stronglight is ISO when it's not at all. The Stronglights have a very long tapered section whereas the Campys/ISO are very short. There is a 2-3mm difference in length of taper. Don't try to use your existing spindle with the Campy cranks. At best it won't work, at worst, you'll munge the crank.

Stronglight/TA taper is closest to JIS which is probably why the SR cranks worked out OK. To put a modern Campy crank on an old set of French or Swiss Stronglight cups, you need a later Campagnolo spindle made for the later thin cups. You also need the exact right length, but the good news is that French/Swiss BBs are 68mm, just like English, so you don't need a French/Swiss spindle. Just get a later Campy one in the right length, use your existing cups, new grade 25 bearings and roll along on your way.

Karl

^karl to the rescue!^
now the trick will be to figure out the length "later Campy" spindle you need for that perfect chainline with a Mirage triple. If Campy says 110mm with their modern sealed BB, what would be an educated guess?

I recently put a Veloce triple on an Italian frame with a 30.8mm seat tube( I think ). I had to use a 113mm asymetrical bb. The original 104mm bb gave me what I thought was a good chain line but there was not enough clearance for the fd to make the shift to the small ring. I don't know if the Veloce and the Mirage are the same though. I think you will like the triple.

I recently installed a Veloce triple on an Italian frame with a 31.8mm seat tube. I had touse a 115.5mm bb. The 104mm bb would not give enough clearance for the fd to shift to the small chain ring. Sorry I don't know if the Veloce and Mirage triple dimensions are the same. ....I think you will like the triple.

Thanks for that bit of news. Every thing I have read says it is an ISO, but what you say makes sense, the SR seemed to fit fine.

OK, sorry to keep resurrecting this but more advice needed. I gave up on the campy because I could not find a reasonable compatable spindle anywhere. But looking at the SR I have, it looks like it could be drilled and tapped to take a 74 BCD chainring. Looking at picture 1; am I correct? If so, what size drill and tap would I use to create the holes. I know a machinist who could do the work, I just need to know the size. Now as it stands, with the crank attached there is about 6mm between the current inner chain ring and the chain stay. (# 2 Not a very good pix, but look at the white arrow) Not enough to add a third ring, at least in my opinion. I'm guessing I need another 3mm? So I am back to finding a spindle. But, with the advent of the new VO french BB it would be easier to get the correct length spindle, and a true JIS. Question is now, what length. The current spindle is stamped 118, but its overall length is about 124mm. So in a nut shell.
1 Can the crank be tapped?
2 What size drill and tap to get the right screw pitch
3 Do I need to move the chain ring outboard a couple mm?
4 Can I use the new Grand Cru french BB from VO
5 If so, what Spindle length do I need?
very last Will a Dura Ace FD handle a triple or will I need to replace it? (80ish DA)

I can't help much, but I can tell you that many of the NR/SR triples I see on ebay are really double cranks with the arms drilled and tapped to accept a small chainring. I assume they use Campy chainwheel bolts.

Measure your chainring bolts or holes, but IIRC they are 8mm.

If you change your mind, Sugino makes a 110mm cup/cone spindle. They show up on eBay now and then.