Dawes-man

Just bought a 1967 Brooks Professional. Looks hardly ridden but there's something odd about it... or is it just me? The seller tells me he polished the rivets and Proofide'd the leather.

The rivets and badge have been polished, the chrome is excellent, there are no seat bone dents in the leather and it's never been tensioned. But the chocolate-brown, mat finish and the faintness of the model name tooling on the dies are new to me.

Picchio Special

It's just you.

Dawes-man

Okay, so that's 1 for the mat finish to the leather being normal. Thank you, Picchio Special! Your confidence is reassuring.

I only have 1 other, shiny leather, 1976 Professional to compare it to. Otherwise, the 1947 B15 Champion Standard I have is likewise very shiny and they are both what I would imagine my B17 Champion Special and my B17 Flyer will look like in 40 plus years' time.

USAZorro

Possibly cared for indifferently. Possibly has been soaked and remolded. I've seen plenty of variation in the surface appearance with these, and this is within what I'd consider the range of "normal".

cyclotoine

use some natural shoe polish and buff it with a brush, it'll shine up, then ride it a lot, put a cotton cloth under your butt for extra polishing.

Dawes-man

Thank you, USAZorro! I do actually like the look of this saddle. The photos actually make it look waxier than it is. It's almost suede in reality. I remember someone in this forum recommending cracking the polish of a new Brooks with fine emery cloth and wondered if someone hadn't been at this one.

What do you mean by 'remolded'?

Dawes-man

Thanks, cyclotoine! I have a pair of old cotton chinos I use for that. They look pretty nasty from behind. Shoe polish I wouldn't have thought of.

gomango

Shoe polish works great, just don't do the "bonehead" move I did. I forgot the cotton cloth and managed to put the excess polish on the rear of a new pair of light tan trousers. Zero style points according to my fashion coordinator!

cudak888 

Try some Kiwi Saddle Soap (available at some Walgreens). Unlike shoe polish, the application itself won't stain your pants (though the saddle's tanning -whatever is left of it - might).

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

There are probably as many treatment/break-in/maintenance regimes for Brooks saddles out there as there are buns to sit on them. One of these, I recall, advocates rubbing the saddle top with steel wool until it turns white all over, then applying some sort of potion or other. Maybe that's what happened to this one.

karmat

I've seen plenty of older saddles with the faint lettering. That's pretty normal. I don't know about those rivets, though. Even the older ones I recall seeing had been hammered, and these have not. Maybe I just haven't seen enough older ones.

Cheers,
Karl

Picchio Special

Generally, the Team Pro oversized rivets are hand hammered, but the smaller ones are not.

Road Fan

If you want the finish to be restored, first just try basic first aid and gentle use. This thing is 40+ years old after all. I would suggest just saddle soap for gentle first aid, allow it to dry, put it on a bike, and see if it will even hold up your bones, or if it will start to tear quickly. It doesn't LOOK like there are any weak points, but there could be some.

The pressure of a rider and the motion between the rider and the saddle should also tend to smooth out the surface. I have definitely seen that happen to old or wetted saddles I've had. If it doesn't, THEN you have a slightly more unusual situation that might need some more aggressive treatment.

Don't even think about some of these more aggressive treatments until you've tried the easy stuff.

I have seen the imprints fade due to use. Wear, moisture, other weathering, I can't say for sure what the cause is, but leather isn't plastic, and the imprints are not molded.

That saddle looks to be in excellent condition, considering it's 42 years old. I'd be inclined to attempt to use it, and if it doesn't suit you, assign it a place of honor in the collection, and get a newer Pro to ride on.

I had a Pro purchased around 1969, and it had the small rivets. There was an upgrade model at that time, but being a poor high school kid, I didn't buy it. Saddle worked great without the bigger rivets. Even back then, Brooks had some model "churn."

karmat

Yes, but these looked to me like the oversized rivets... Maybe Brooks changed that at some point? Looks like I'm wrong, since here's a shot from the Raleigh catalog for the Professional:



Karl

unworthy1

the rivets on the OP's saddle DO look larger than what I have on a "small-rivet" Pro, yet they are clearly not hand-hammered...I've never seen that variation before.
Given the condition of the bottom of the leather top, and the appearance of the rear badge, I'd guess that this was a very weathered saddle that has been buffed with something like steel wool to give it that velvet or suede-like nap. I wouldn't hold much hope for the leather lasting very long, since it seems distressed (dried out) and any original hide surface has now been "broken open" by the abrasion...but who knows: keep a (light) coating of Proofide on it and see what happens, but be on guard for any ripping at the rivets.

Road Fan

I would beg to differ - with something this old, don't treat the leather with anything other than saddle soap and a damp cloth until you get a chance to ride it and see if it's worth working on. I know Proofide is what Brooks recommended, and something else is what Sheldon recommended, et cetera, but with a worn finish like that and so many years past, I'd proceed very gently. You didn't get it for free, did you?

It might smooth nicely just from butt polishing. That would be optimum - don't take chances on breaking ANYTHING down, and make it look better.

bikerosity57

It's YOU, because that saddle is WELL used. Thousands, tens of thousands of miles. It was cared for but used a lot.

Dawes-man

This is the bit I don't understand as every well-used Brooks I've seen has dents from the rider's sit bones. This one has none that I can see.

unworthy1

tens of thousand of miles ridden by a waif with sand-paper shorts? I don't think anybody can tell for certain based on the photos (I know I can't), this is something best judged by feel.
But I look at the photo of the underside and that cantle and rail sure don't show signs of long exposure (and I know what MY Brooks look like after long years of use and CARE, yet there's hardly a speck of rust on this one), nevertheless that leather looks far more dried out (and "weathered") than the old veterans that I'm still riding...so, I guess it's ME, too.

Dawes-man

Went and had a look at my other Professional, a 1976. I also fitted the 1967 and rode it today. A big improvement on the 1949 B15.

unworthy1

just to be a little too anal-retentive: I'm still curious about the size of those rivet heads.
I have a "small rivet Pro" from 1973 whose rivets are 12mm diameter, and a B-17 Champion Special from date unknown with the hand-hammered rivets which range 16-17mm diameter (I would guess typical of a Hammered-rivet Pro as well).
What diameter are the rivets on your Pros (cause they *appear* to be larger than 12mm, to me)?

karmat

At least I'm not alone.

Karl

Road Fan

Ok, I think someone on CR once posted about a 14 mm rivet that was not common and was not hammered. I guess this is what you have.

Dawes-man

The rivets measure 12.5mm, as best as I can tell. I measured the most protruding one by pushing the vernier scale down into the leather at the sides of the rivet...

unworthy1

so much for my skills at eyeball measurement, I guess they are "standard" small rivets.
Nice bikes, BTW.