streik

Hello you all.

Since you have been very patient and competent with my few questions so far, i dare asking a rather stupid one. I'm in a state of confusion.

I read everything sheldonbrownish about bottom bracket removal i could. I gathered the following:

The BB on my italian (!) colnago frame is standard threaded, meaning the fixed cup has been screwed in very very tightly so that the pedaling movement doesn't screw it out again. Sounds logic to me.

But on my darn frame the fixed cup is on the driveside, where - as my logic allows me to conclude - the pedaling screws the fixed cup of an italian-threaded BB in tighter and tighter with every turn.

Is this assumption correct? Do i have to screw out my drive-side-mounted Fixed cup counterclockwise (as would be reasonable) or counterclockwise (for some devilishly illogical reason)?

Anyway thanks for any help!

-David

stausty

Italian threads are the same on both sides and both standard, right-hand threads.

More specifically about precession in a BB - from the drive-side, the cranks, and the spindle, go clockwise. The bearings rotate counter-clockwise relative to the spindle, which wants to drag the cup counter-clockwise as well. Right-hand threads unscrew this way, so English BB's use left-hand threads here. The French and Italians, who apparently decided that having concentric threads in a BB is more important that a silly cup unthreading, and didn't feel the need to build a special tool to do it, went ahead and threaded the whole shell at once, with one tap, which is right-handed.

Old Fat Guy

They can be a bugger to remove. I usually end up using the Sheldon bolt method to firmly attach the tool to the fixed cup, then use a jeebus bar on the tool. Leverage is your friend.

cudak888 

My preferred method (hammer not shown):





-Kurt

streik

jeebus bar? sounds great...

Leverage is what i need, that's true. My wrenches are no match for this task.

[edit] where do i get one of those fixedcup-wrench-in-place-keeper-thingys?

Charles Wahl

Read Sheldon Brown on Precession. It works opposite to what you would think. The correct way to thread a BB, so far as precession is concerned, is to have the fixed cup (almost always on the drive side) be left-hand threaded. As discussed above, the French and Italians have demurred, for reasons of manufacturing convenience, one supposes (but maybe it's just nationalistic contrariness).

miamijim

Assuming you have the proper fixed cup wrench install the BB spindle and drive side bearing. Place BIG washers over the spindle then secure the washers in place with the crank bolt.

The washers and bolt will hold the fixed cup tool in place. Dont not tighten down the bolt all the way. Leave a tiny touch of play in the axle, apply leverage to the tool and once the cup moves, stop and loosen the crank bolt.

gr23932

I use this now:

TejanoTrackie 

Dare I ask the reason that you are removing the fixed cup?

kranz

I use a bench vise firmly attached to my work bench for fixed cup removal. Flat edges of cup are held in the vise jaws. Frame provides the leverage. No special tools required.

streik

I remove it so i can let the frame be repainted... one side of it's been in the sun for a year or more and so the purple paint turned yellow, where there even still is paint.

Thanks to everyone for the inputs, great help. Gives me the courage to struggle on

lotek 

I had one fixed cup that probably hadn't been removed in oh, 20 years. Sheldon's do it
yourself removal tool only succeeded in scoring the face of the cup. Finally took it to LBS
who used a VAR tool and a 3 foot cheater bar on the end of that. When it finally broke free
sounded like a gunshot and I though Geez, there goes that frame, fortunately that wasn't true.

gr23932 what tool is that? Is that they Cyclus version?

marty

Old Fat Guy

Marty, I had the same results with Sheldon's tip, but then figured I use it, modified, to hold the tool in place.

I used a 4 foot length of pipe, ant came off nicely.

Now I go right for that method, especially with Italian cups.

unterhausen

Is this one of the aluminum cups? If so, it isn't coming out without a fight.

Panthers007

Park Tool HHP-2 headset-press and fixed-cup tool can be used to hold a wrench (of some form) into place while removing fixed-cups.

miamijim

Marty thats similar to the old VAR fixed cup removal tool. SB's method is a take-off of that tool.

My method is a take-off off of the Stein tool. Back in my shop days I had every available fixed cup removal tool at my disposal. The Stein tool was my goto weapon of choice.

gr23932

It was actually custom made in Belgium for my LBS. They gave it to me without handles and had some welded here in MD.

TejanoTrackie 

"Ese dicho que me han dicho que tú has dicho que yo he dicho, ese dicho no lo he dicho, porque si lo hubiera dicho, ese dicho estaría bien dicho por haberlo dicho yo."

Cantinflas? (Mario Moreno)

John E

Another theory is that the Brits. patented anticlockwise threading on the right side of the BB. The same precession story applies to pedal spindles, which are perhaps counterintuitively left-threaded on the left side.

One cool way to install French and Italian bottom brackets is with a pair of adjustable cups and lockrings, to provide a modicum of chainline adjustment and to simplify full disassembly. I have had ordinary fixed cups on the two Bianchis and the two French-threaded Peugeots I have owned, and I used to have problems until I started using LocTite.

JohnDThompson 

I use this one, with the official cheater pipe:

gr23932

Tal vez?? Es un travalenguas que aprendi desde plebe.