Paramount help needed
 

I picked up this Paramount from the original owner yesterday for what i think is pretty cheap $400.He went to Trek and bought a mountain bike.He said this bike has been hanging in the garage for over 30 yrs.He said he bought it in the late sixties but with the serial number [d73335] I think it is a 1973 frame assembled in 1974.It is very dirty and covered with 30 years of preservative{dirt].The lugs are still shiny under the dirt and the Silver mist color still shines where cleaned.the chain was stuck to the chainring from grease.I pumped the tubulars up to 100 psi and they didnt pop although the front went flat overnight.I am trying to figure out if its a p-10 and age.Need help. Will start complete strip down next week if possible.the components are:
Campy=seat stem
cable guides
rear der.=nuovo record
front der.=campy
hubs
axles
pedals
shifters
crank
42-52 chainring
26-23-18-16-14 freewheel
Brooks professional saddle
Mavic rims?? possibly changed
Christophe toe clips and straps
Continental sprinter 250 tires[tubulars]
Cinelli bars and stem
Weinimann centerpull brakes
Heres some 'before' pics in rough shape.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...g?t=1249997200
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...g?t=1249997254
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...g?t=1249997305

It's a 1973 P13-9. You have a beautiful, original bike that was a bargain at $400.

The P13 doesn't have eyelets (the P10 does), and the P13 uses the three Campy clips on the top tube for the rear brake cable (the P10 has braze-ons on the top tube for the rear brake cable). Your bike is "Silver Mist"...

The catalog photos show the 1972 seat tube "Olympic Rings" decals because the photos are taken in the fall of the previous year. The 1973 Paramounts only had the World Championship rings decals as on your bike.

If the rims are Mavic Championnat du Monde - Montlery tubulars, they are original. That's what came on my December, 1972 Paramount.

From the 1973 Paramount Catalog:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...P13-9Specs.jpg

1973 Consumer Catalog:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...9Paramount.jpg

Thanks very much for the info

Stan - that reminds me, did the P13's revised fork geometry first pop up in 1972 or 1973? The P13 in the '72 catalog shows the earlier geometry (which found its way onto the P15, IIRC).

-Kurt

P.S.: I still maintain that is the all-time corniest Schwinn Paramount ad ever created (and not because of his trousers either) - though probably the most effective.

There's a guy and a bike in the ad? I didn't notice :D

Dude ... those pants!

No wonder her body language sez, "Get me outta here!"

Good question.

The 1971 Paramount catalog lists the following fork rakes:

P13-9: 2 inches (50.8mm)
P15-9: 2 inches (50.8mm)
P14-0: 1-5/8 inches (41.3mm)

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to obtain a copy of the 1972 Paramount catalog evern though I've been actively looking for about five years. However, the 1973 Paramount catalog includes a specifications supplement page that states there were no significant "equipment" changes from the 1972 specifications for the P13-9, P15-9, and P14-0. It introduces the P10-9 as having "...the same basic specifications as P15 Paramout with the exception that gearing will be ten-speed. Gear range with standard equipment will be 51 to 100.

The 1973 Paramount catalog doesn't list the fork rakes except for the P14-0, which is 1-3/8" (35mm). For the P10 and P15, the frame specifications state "...slightly longer wheelbase and longer fork rake for a more 'shock-absorbing' ride." The P13 frame specifications state "...short wheelbase and shallow fork rake combine to produce quick and responsive handling." These descriptions seem to be written by marketing people who don't understand front end geometry since, for the same head tube angle (in this case both the P13 and P10/P15 have 73° HTAs) less rake = more trail = slower, less responsive handling.

It isn't until the 1976 Paramount catalog that we see the complete geometry picture for all the Paramount models. This geometry page describes the head tube angle and seat tube angle of the P10, P13, and P15 as 73° parallel (just as they had been since 1971), and the P14 as 74° parallel. The P13-9 is shown as having a fork rake of 1-3/4" (44.5mm) and the P10-9 and P15-9 are shown as having a fork rake of 2" (50.8mm). Again, with all of these frames having a 73° HTA, the P13-9 with shorter rake will have longer trail, which makes for slower, less responsive handling compared to the P10 and P15 forks which have more rake and less trail. Frankly, this doesn't make sense. I've sort of given up on trying to figure out whether the fork rake numbers in the catalogs are real or not, or if they are, what the heck was Schwinn thinking? The catalog descriptions and fork rake specs say that "shallow fork rake ... produces quick and responsive handling" while the opposite is true.

This BikeCAD illustration makes the point. The P13-9 fork on the left with a 44.5mm rake has more trail (56.8mm) than the P10-9/P15-9 fork on the right that has 50.8mm of rake and only 50.2mm of trail. Remember, more trail = slower, less responsive handling.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...lationship.jpg


Boy riding bicycle sees girl in bikini. Boy stops and talks to girl. Use your imagination to figure out what happens next.

Here's the 1976 Paramount geometry page mentioned in my post above.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...Dimensions.jpg

You got a great deal on a beautiful original machine. A little polishing and cleaning/greasing you will ride a time capsule. Thats one bike I'd not mess with too much.

Boy: Hi there, wanna ride on my Schwinn Paramount?
Girl: Gee, I would but I'm not sure, my mother told me not to talk to strangers
Boy: Well, How dangerous can I be? I'm wearing my grandfathers pants and tennies. How could
anyone wearing their pants around their sternum be anything but a clown?
Girl: uhm, er, ah, I'm still not sure, what did you say your name was?
Boy: uh, john,er . . . I mean Wayne. Yah that's it, I'm Wayne.
Girl: oh I'm sorry Wayne, I forgot I'm supposed to wash my hair this week, and I've penciled that in
for 2.36 minutes from now. Bye, gotta go
Wayne: Damn, lost another one.

AARRRGGG!!!! You beat me to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was emailing the guy and only heard back once!


AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!




Any chance you don't really want it? :)

You should sell it to me for $400 since it pretty much matches my 72 Paramount track
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_GD0mJI-y4Ic/Sj...ackbike043.jpg *that is in as found condition

hi kalifornsky,this is the one that was on cl for $500.it surprised me when I saw it in such original condition.He dropped the price $100 because it needs tires.The brooks saddle is still like new and never adjusted.this is the third one i've picked up in this area in the last 4 months and all around the $400-$500area.It must be the sign of the economic times in N/W Indiana.

Nah, that's not it. It's because (a) his shoes and his shirt are the same shade of pastel blue and (b) the cross-chaining exposes him as a hopeless poseur. :D

Got some great info here.I thought about changing to clincher tires but i think I will stick to the tubulars to keep it like it was meant to be.

Nice Paramount. A deal for sure at $400. Congratulations!

I don't want to hijack this thread, but that ad photo brought back some memories.

A dozen years ago my father passed away. These pants were some of his favorites in the 70's. The striped ones on the left are Levi's and after they retired from his work wardrobe he used to wear them when he was doing stuff in the garage and in the yard. The red and white checked ones on the right by Farah have cuffs over 2 inches wide. Dad would pair those cuffs with some massively wide collars on his shirts.

I still can't toss these pants. Too many memories.......

As a general point, I've seen some "transitional" P-13's from circa 1971 with some of the newer features and some of the older ones - I'm sure you have, too.

One unique feature of the Paramount line was that it was possible to special order any model with a custom sized frame. In my case it was a 1976 P14 track bike with a smaller 19" seat tube and correspondingly shorter top tube and wheelbase. I raced this bike for 30 years before buying a modern aluminum track bike (Bianchi Pista Concept). The original bars and stem were steel, it had a different seat and seatpost and of course the original pedals had toe clips and straps. Unfortunately, I sold all those parts or otherwise I would have restored it to its original state when I bought my new track bike.