Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Cudak888's Top 5 List of Underrated C&V Machines:

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Cudak888's Top 5 List of Underrated C&V Machines:

Old 08-20-09, 02:39 PM
  #1  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 24,559

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 732 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 319 Posts
Cudak888's Top 5 List of Underrated C&V Machines:

(EDIT: Forgot to mention - I mean C&V VLW's)

Figured I'd give the underrated machines a go:

5. Marinoni anything (EDIT: Debatable):
I'll be perfectly honest, I've never had any hands-on experience with one. I'm placing it here purely after reading what I've heard about them - namely that every single person who has owned one says they ride particularly well, and that all of them seem to show excellent workmanship. Furthermore, they seem to be, on the average, reasonably affordable (definitely so in comparison to most Italian machines).

4. Japanese-made "Series" PDG Paramounts:
Oversized, lugged cromoly steel frames with completely functional Shimano drivetrain systems - some higher end then others. Depending on the model, one can conceivably pick one of these up for under $300. What isn't to like about that? Furthermore, if you think all Paramounts ride similar to the second-gen models (i.e., overbuilt and often "dead"), you might think differently after riding one.

3. Miyata 710:
How can you argue with a bike that comes stock with a triple-butted cromoly frame and Suntour Cyclone, and is often found on Craigslist under $250? You can't. Sure, it has that unmistakable Japanese-build look to it, no lug thinning, thick fork crown shoreline, boring dropout-to-stay treatment - but so does a high-end Team Fuji for twice the price.

2. Peugeot UO-8:
I debated on whether to consider this underrated - many of the folks here on the forum have caught onto the fact that Peugeot's high-tensile bargain 10 speed is a solid, inexpensive little frame. Furthermore, it isn't as heavy as one might think it is when upgraded with the right components (a simple Suntour FD, RD and shifters can solve the main weakness of the '70s-era UO's - the Simplex Prestiege groupset). Did I mention that they're plentiful? They might as well be the French Schwinn Continental - without the built-in boat anchor.

1. Raleigh Super Course (pre-1983):
I probably don't even need to introduce the Super Course. It was probably Raleigh's best-selling model with 531, and we all know what it is. It doesn't matter that the earlier models have stamped dropouts, and that some of the later '70s models were sloppy (like all late '70s Nottingham Raleigh products). They ride well, and you can do virtually anything with them (ask nlerner, king of Raleigh SC's). Best yet, it isn't entirely impossible to find one cheap - regardless of whether it is a first-gen SC, SC MkII, or the later third-gens. They're plentiful, reliable, versatile, and inexpensive.

(There are many others that I'm no doubt omitting. I can't think of them right now, and I'd probably be here for hours trying to figure out which belong in this list - it would end up being a top-10).

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 08-20-09 at 06:04 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 02:56 PM
  #2  
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,770

Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh, man... can't believe you left off the Sears, 531 Ted Williams Free Spirit...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
sears.jpg (88.5 KB, 98 views)
dbakl is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 03:02 PM
  #3  
yepyep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ok...
yepyep is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 03:11 PM
  #4  
SirMike1983 
On the road
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,638
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I guess my bias towards the heavies and English-style bicycles shows in my thoughts. But I'll throw a couple into the mix:

Dayton/Huffman balloon tire bicycles built from the 1930-1950s (except for the flex death bikes). Collectors have caught on to some of these, but riders today think "Huffy=crap" often. In fact Dayton/Huffman bicycles of the earlier vintages were well-made and quite solid. They also had nice styling. The "long tail" Dayton La France is supremely beautiful and a rock solid machine.

Columbia balloon tire bicycles, especially the ones made from 1946-1951. These bicycles used pre-war styling and generally well-made components (some of the chrome isn't the best, but alright) but you can get them at a fraction of what a prewar Schwinn will cost. They generally ride nicely. If you like prewar styling and finish, but don't have the money, look for a 1940s era Columbia.

Columbia 3 speed roadsters, especially the early ones from the 1950s-early 1960s. These were meant to compete with the appearing Raleighs in the US. People often degrade them, but those that do really don't know about them. These were solid, quality 3 speed utility cycles that are just as reliable as Raleighs, and in many cases actually easier to work on at home. They often don't sell for much money compared to contemporary Raleighs, though they still use the reliable SA AW hub system, and regular caliper brakes.

Schwinn 3 speed cycles. These have come up in value lately. But when I was doing my Raleigh buying a few years ago, these came up often and sold for less than Raleighs often would sell for of the same vintage. Like the Columbias, some people degrade the 1 piece crank, but once you get a straight one and a good set of bearings + pedals, they're nice because they're easier to work on. I also like the frame finishing on many of these Schwinns-- very smooth and attractive. Many have relaxed frame angles, if you like a more casual ride. I somewhat regret not having gotten one when they were cheaper. I'm still on the look out though.

I'll also include a full category: late 1950s/early 1960s American middle weight bicycles, especially those from Schwinn, Columbia and JC Higgins. People often overlook these- too small to be ballooners, too big to be utility bicycles, too slow to be road machines. Yet they actually offer a nice, moderate ride with the look and some of the feel of a balloon tire at a fraction of the cost, and often with a nice 2 speed Bendix hub or even a 3 speed SA gear. They make nice cruisers for people who want something a little lighter and faster than a full heavy.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
http://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 03:24 PM
  #5  
ozneddy
Senior Member
 
ozneddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,485

Bikes: Casati, ,Peugot,Mitchell,Raliegh,Nishiki

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree about the "UO8" very underated,what a SCHWEEEET little bike they are !
ozneddy is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 03:39 PM
  #6  
jgedwa
surly old man
 
jgedwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 3,370

Bikes: IRO Mark V, Karate Monkey half fat, Trek 620 IGH, Cannondale 26/24 MTB, Amp Research B3, and more.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
-Many early rigid MTB's. Especially amongst us frankenbikers, they are a virtually limitless platform to work with.

-Any of the "other" Trek roadbikes. All those unloved 330's, 400's etc.

-Can I call Klein underrated? I don't think they can be overrated, so they must be.

jim
__________________
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
jgedwa is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 03:47 PM
  #7  
dck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Peninsula
Posts: 645

Bikes: '62 Peugeot UO8, '63 Schwinn Superior, ;72 Peugeot PX-10, '74 Motobecane LeChampion, '74 Peugeot UO18

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think the entire line of mid '80's Tenax tubed Schwinns are highly underrated. And I've also been pleasantly surprised by how well my '74 Motobecane Grand Jubilee rides.

I wholeheartedly agree about the UO-8.
dck is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 03:49 PM
  #8  
Ashen
Cascadian Nationalist
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jgedwa View Post
-Many early rigid MTB's. Especially amongst us frankenbikers, they are a virtually limitless platform to work with.
Yes, this.
Ashen is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 04:27 PM
  #9  
Sierra
Uff Da!
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by dck View Post
I think the entire line of mid '80's Tenax tubed Schwinns are highly underrated.
+1
I have several of the mid to late eighties ones and am very impressed with them.
Blindfolded, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the ride of my '87 Super Sport and my '89 Waterford built Paramount.

As far as Schwinn road bikes go, I think they are the most bang for your buck.
Sierra is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 04:35 PM
  #10  
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 5,060

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
How interesting, since I was tempted to mention Marinoni in the other thread.
Picchio Special is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 04:36 PM
  #11  
junkfoodjunkie
@$#!?&!!$
 
junkfoodjunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Green Country, OK
Posts: 698
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
+1
I have several of the mid to late eighties ones and am very impressed with them.
Blindfolded, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the ride of my '87 Super Sport and my '89 Waterford built Paramount.

As far as Schwinn road bikes go, I think they are the most bang for your buck.
I am quite fond of my 87 Super Sport frame also. Do not have a Waterford to compare it to, but it rides just as well as any of my other bikes.
junkfoodjunkie is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 04:46 PM
  #12  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,980
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
(EDIT: Forgot to mention - I mean C&V VLW's)

Figured I'd give the underrated machines a go:

5. Marinoni anything:
I'll be perfectly honest, I've never had any hands-on experience with one. I'm placing it here purely after reading what I've heard about them - namely that every single person who has owned one says they ride particularly well, and that all of them seem to show excellent workmanship. Furthermore, they seem to be, on the average, reasonably affordable (definitely so in comparison to most Italian machines).

-Kurt

Back in my shop days we shod Marinonis and to be honest with you we had more complaints about them than other make we sold. Every custom frameset we sold was NOT made to the specification requested. Regardless of it being the wrong color, wrong shade, wrong paint scheme or an incorrect fork crown everyone had issues. On top of that they had very delicate paint.

I'm not saying the lug work or brazing or chrome quality or ride quality was sub par but when a customer orders ABC and gets XYZ it says something about the company.
miamijim is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 05:04 PM
  #13  
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 5,060

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Back in my shop days we shod Marinonis and to be honest with you we had more complaints about them than other make we sold. Every custom frameset we sold was NOT made to the specification requested. Regardless of it being the wrong color, wrong shade, wrong paint scheme or an incorrect fork crown everyone had issues. On top of that they had very delicate paint.

I'm not saying the lug work or brazing or chrome quality or ride quality was sub par but when a customer orders ABC and gets XYZ it says something about the company.
Some of the stuff was subbed out - including frames coming in from Italy. They're not bad; just on so many people's "underrated" list that they've become overrated. Plus, some folks seem to think they're as good as the very best production shops, which they're not, IMO. Having said that, I could have bought one with 8-speed Dura Ace (pre-STI) for $350, and definitely should have bit. But mainly I'm responding to say I dig the new avatar.
Picchio Special is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 05:09 PM
  #14  
Otis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,756
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
How interesting, since I was tempted to mention Marinoni in the other thread.
Yeah, I was thinking this whole list could easily fit in the "overrated" post.

But I guess all bikes are overrated by some criteria. Anyway, the whole thing is subjective to the "rater". And there's a lot of overrated raters in this world.
Otis is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 05:16 PM
  #15  
Zaphod Beeblebrox 
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
 
Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Posts: 7,536

Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Cudak888
4. Japanese-made "Series" PDG Paramounts:
Oversized, lugged cromoly steel frames with completely functional Shimano drivetrain systems - some higher end then others. Depending on the model, one can conceivably pick one of these up for under $300. What isn't to like about that? Furthermore, if you think all Paramounts ride similar to the second-gen models (i.e., overbuilt and often "dead"), you might think differently after riding one.
I passed on one for a great price on eBay just 2 weeks ago.
Are they legit or what?

I just sort of assumed they were simply hoe'd out version of a real Paramount...and for some reason i thought they were Aluminum.

maybe i should go back and kick myself a little.

I Gotta agree about the Super Course
Zaphod Beeblebrox is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 05:40 PM
  #16  
jgedwa
surly old man
 
jgedwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 3,370

Bikes: IRO Mark V, Karate Monkey half fat, Trek 620 IGH, Cannondale 26/24 MTB, Amp Research B3, and more.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by dck View Post
I think the entire line of mid '80's Tenax tubed Schwinns are highly underrated.
Yes.

And any Valite-tubed Fuji is worth a look also. And sticking with Fuji, some surpisingly inexpensive ones have very nice triple-butted tubing also.

j
__________________
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
jgedwa is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 05:50 PM
  #17  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 19,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 211 Times in 167 Posts
I would say there are probably dozens of framebuilders from the late '70s and early '80s that made frames as good as the top guys. Maybe the eye candy wasn't as impressive. Lots of those bikes go without love nowadays. I expect that their prices will never catch up to the top names, but that just makes the bikes a bargain. And some of them will catch on and gain price parity over time. I'm seeing crappy low-end production bikes go for 4 times what you can pay for a little known all-super record top of the line bike from a little known builders. I know where my money would go. If people want the production bikes, they can have them.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 05:50 PM
  #18  
top506
Death fork? Naaaah!!
 
top506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The other Maine, north of RT 2
Posts: 4,749

Bikes: Seriously downsizing.

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 59 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
(EDIT: Forgot to mention - I mean C&V VLW's)

Figured I'd give the underrated machines a go:



3. Miyata 710:
How can you argue with a bike that comes stock with a triple-butted cromoly frame and Suntour Cyclone, and is often found on Craigslist under $250? You can't. Sure, it has that unmistakable Japanese-build look to it, no lug thinning, thick fork crown shoreline, boring dropout-to-stay treatment - but so does a high-end Team Fuji for twice the price.
Early 710 were double-butted, but still real nice framesets.
I think you need to expand this to all the middle-tier Miyata road bikes (310-714) from, say, '81 to '90.
Top
('81 710, '87 512).
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
top506 is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 06:06 PM
  #19  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 24,559

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 732 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 319 Posts
Originally Posted by dck View Post
I think the entire line of mid '80's Tenax tubed Schwinns are highly underrated. And I've also been pleasantly surprised by how well my '74 Motobecane Grand Jubilee rides.

I wholeheartedly agree about the UO-8.
With what Miamijim stated, I'm tempted to replace Marioni with one of those Tenax machines - they didn't come to mind, but they are an obvious contender.

Come to think of it, I've always classified the Tenax machines with the mid to higher end Miyata (310-714, as Top suggests) and '83-86 Raleigh USA machines (Prestige, Super Course, Competition, Grand Prix, and the Team USA Replica).

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 06:10 PM
  #20  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 24,559

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 732 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 319 Posts
Originally Posted by jgedwa View Post
-Can I call Klein underrated? I don't think they can be overrated, so they must be.
I'd say relatively underrated, in comparison to Cannondale.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 06:25 PM
  #21  
top506
Death fork? Naaaah!!
 
top506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The other Maine, north of RT 2
Posts: 4,749

Bikes: Seriously downsizing.

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 59 Times in 41 Posts
I might also suggest the Vitus 888 motos.
Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
top506 is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 06:25 PM
  #22  
balindamood 
Wrench Savant
 
balindamood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 61 Degrees North
Posts: 2,216

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The higher end Univega's and Lotus's, thought they have a following, are under-rated.

Faggin. Seriously. Find one person who has one who does not like it.

+1 on the early to mid-80' MTB's.

Mid-80's mid-level schwins (above Le tour, but below Paramount). Not souitable for the Tour de France, but basically $%$# good bikes.
__________________
"Where you come from is gone;
where you are headed weren't never there;
and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it."
balindamood is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 06:36 PM
  #23  
Ex Pres 
#39
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,177
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 371 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 19 Posts
A bike with better tubing than the UO-8, about 24# as originally equipped, and can usually be had at least as cheap as the Pug is the early 70's Gitane Interclub. The later ones could probably be included, too. A good solid inexpensive ride.
Ex Pres is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 06:45 PM
  #24  
mkael
Senior Member
 
mkael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A lot of the bikes I have seen mentioned here I haven't really seen in real life at all. Only a few.

Some small name bikes which very few have heard about? Probably underrated

Especially in the past bikes have been such a regional thing. Different places have different bikes. The world before internet was a very different place. Even today searching for some bike manufacturer will get 4 or 5 results on this forum. Maybe they are mentioned somewhere on the internet , but the bikes being localized in real life makes them virtual bikes for most people.
mkael is offline  
Old 08-20-09, 07:04 PM
  #25  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 27,005
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Liked 798 Times in 512 Posts
Not a bad list, I'd have to agree on the Paramount and almost any Miyata ending in "ten."
The others, no clue hereabouts.

My own fault for driving up the value of my own personal "underrated" example, to the point where it's now fairly recognized as a pretty decent bike.
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.