Roll-Monroe-Co

OK, guys. For some time I have been trying to select handlebars for my wife's city bike (actually a women's nishiki "freewheeler" frame and fork with fenders and full chainguard from a japanese city bike).

PLEASE no advice about how I have chosen a bad frame for the job (really a road bike that orig came with drop bars). I have large sunk costs here, and if my visions are illusions, I'd like to keep them at this point.

At any rate, I am posting for a much higher purpose.

I was trying to find the bars with the optimum combination of rise (as much as I could get), reach (i.e., backward sweep; as much as I could get), without too much width. For example, apehangers actually give too much rise and too much flare, and wouldn't look good with the bike; HD-style cruiser bars are hideously wide and still a little too much flare for my taste.

When comparing the info from the VO and Rivendell sites, I found the descriptive data a bit lacking. VO in particular is inconsistent about the info provided, and it's difficult to compare bars directly. Rivendell is a little better, but the info does not make it easy to compare similar bars (GP just wants to tell you "if you ride like [poetic metaphor], you want these bars; if you ride like [contrasting poetic metaphor], then you want these bars"; meanwhile, Chris K.'s richest info about his products uses only obscure references to Parisian neighborhoods, interpretable only by the cognoscenti (veloscenti?).

My proposal is to build a public database comparing popular upright bars (heck, we could do it for drop bars too if people get into it). I would see this as the provenance of Jon Fisher's velobase, and maybe he would be interested in including the data.

I did write to Chris K. about this, but his response was terse and incomplete. I think he's too busy for long-winded pedants like me. And he didn't seem to be impressed by the difficulty of comparing his products directly.

I have attached a snapshot of the data I have so far.

Definitions (measurements in cm/mm):

Width = c-c distance between ends of the bars.

Rise = the difference in height between the bar at the clamp area and the ends of the bars

Grip =length of the (traditional) grip area

Clamp=clamp diameter

Flare angle=see attached

Reach: First of all, can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but by reach here, I mean the distance from the center of the clamp area of the bar (the center of the cross section) along the plane of the upper part of the bar to a line connecting the ends of the bar (easiest to conceptualize and measure on a bar with no rise (e.g., the VO Belleville (attached graphic) or a straight mountain bar (reach=0)

It's because of no "reach" data that I started this in the first place.

First, critique my definitions. Second if you have any of the bars listed, or have others to suggest, would you mind measuring them?

Eric

Roll-Monroe-Co

Bonus. The bike that started it all. new 26x1-3/8 wheels and tires--SA Dynodrum front / SA 3sp drum rear. technomic, temp saddle, etc. etc. a work in progress. Rear fender will have skirtguard lacing. Current bars are temp from a 50's newspaper delivery bike of unknown vintage--but that gets restored or rat-rodded, not raided, ultimately.

Staggerwing

A bit too long winded for me, but I run Nitto Moustache bars (15/16" road diameter) on my commuter, and a Soma Sparrow, 52cm width (7/8" MTB diameter) on a SRAM, iMotion 9 equipped city bike. I run the Soma's old school, with grips below the stem, although, they could just as easily be run as risers. See the Soma site for more details, if you wish. A bit more friendly to the wallet than Nitto, although you will never hear me knocking Nitto. They make superlative quality products, filling niches that others tend to ignore, at reasonable prices.

Roll-Monroe-Co

Thanks SW. Kids today have a convenient expression for this: "tl;dr" (too long; didn't read). Appreciate your contribution.

cs1

WOW, information overload. Sounds like a nice project but next time keep the question simple. Good luck

bbattle

Your best bet is to do image searches and see what the various handlebars look like on different bikes.

Right here in the C & V, you'll find threads on North Road Commuter bars, moustache bars, Albatross bars, Priest bars, Porteur bars, Maes, Luterwasser(sp?), cruiser bars. Lots of pics.

Your wife should be able to help you by telling you how wide she'd like the bars. If it's for cruising the neighborhood, probably go for the wider bars as this is more comfortable for upright positions and slower speeds.

If the Porteur bar is not wide enough, go for the VO Tourist bar. Or go the other way and get the Nitto North Roads.

If you need more reach, get a shorter stem. Or a smaller frame. Or a larger wife.

You can get all the data you'd ever think you'd need and still not be able to pick the perfect handlebars. You can't x and y graph what your wife wants. Trial and error with some educated guesses is as good as you'll get.

Are you an engineer, by chance?

Roll-Monroe-Co

Heh. No, I'm not an engineer, but I am a scientist. We communicate with one another by trying to cover all the bases, so no one can ask us a question we haven't already answered. Communication genre FAIL.

I appreciate the people who responded despite the fact that my OP was impenetrable. I promise that I'm not that socially inadequate in person ... just on the web.

Yes, the problem is that I (or my wife) can't go down to "the shop" and have the personal look at the complete array of options. Of course a few cm in any direction are not going to make that big a difference.

My netiquette notwithstanding, I don't quite understand why people are confused my my desire for data. If you were going to buy a new bottom bracket, wouldn't you want to know that the threading fit your bike? If you were going to buy a saddle, you wouldn't buy a racing saddle for a city bike and vice versa? Right?

I am trying to adapt a road bike frame to make an ultra-upright city bike. My wife has short arms. I just want to find the right component for the job. I want more information in order to make that choice.

There. I've added graphics and limited the text in order to better communicate with the web generation. Sorry no video or other immersive media were available.

Roll-Monroe-Co

No doubt bb. For this particular bike, I need to turn it over God at some point. I just thought there might be other folks here who would be interested in this idea. Maybe I'll still find them. On the utility bike forum? They're pretty nerdy there, right.

RobbieTunes

My advice is to stop over-thinking it.

Figure out where you want the bars to be, in space.
(put her on the bike, adjust the saddle, have her reach her arms out and down, comfortably)

Take a ruler and measure from the top of the seat tube the general height vertically.
Take a ruler and measeure from teh top of the seat bube the general reach horizontally.

Go to the oldest LBS in the area, they should have lots of bars, especially old ones.
Tell them what you want to do, what the height and reach needs to be.
They have experience, knowledge, and can probably help.

You will be surprised how close you come.

Never underestimate your eyesight, logic, and instinct. That's the only way hipsters can put bikes together.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

You kinda have to read VO and Riv's descriptions to glean what you want to know. All the pertinant info is there...Width C to C, Reach, Rise/Drop and both give decent enough picture for you to discern the general shape of what you're getting. As others have said its easy to overthink when you face so many data points. You can always exchange for a different set if you don't like what you get.

Tl;Dr

If you want lots of Reach go with the Riv Albatross Bars. The VO left bank and Montmartre bars are fine city bars (I have, and like the Left Banks) but they really only give you one hand position. For a city bike thats not a big deal to me, but if "City Bike" is just the look and not necessarily the intended purpose you'll be limited by the lack of hand positions that you could be having with the Albatross bars.

....Albatross bars might be available from someone who isn't Rivendell, which is never a bad thing. Riv takes forever to ship stuff and you have to declare your love for Tolkien everytime you place an order

cs1

Seriously, my head is about to explode after looking at the pics of the rider. Just buy a set of bars that look good. Try them out and if they don't work ebay them like the rest of us do. Good luck

Roll-Monroe-Co

Don't worry. There is NO DANGER of my wife going more than three miles in a single trip! At least, not for the foreseeable future.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

If its just for short trips I think those VO upright bars are sweet...I got my mom set up on a ladies Varsity with VO Tourist bars and one of their big Sprung leather saddles...https://www.velo-orange.com/vomo8spsa.html its on sale for 65 bux right now...they aren't as nice as a Brooks but for short rides they hold up fine.

SlowRoller

I like this idea. You should also add Inner Diameter and Outer diameter. This will affect the types of brakes and shifters you can use on these types of upright bars. For instance, some will allow bar-ends, others won't; some will fit inverse levers, others won't; some can take a twist-shifter and others can't, etc.

kpug505

If you want a super upright sitting position....Buy these. Even relatively level with my saddle and a longish stem it is surprisingly upright...With a a short Nitto Technomic you could get them considerably higher and closer. Where they are now there is a bit of knee overlap which can be un-nerving at slow speeds.
Here is my semi/pretty darn close to "bolt upright" city 650B bike with those bars. For upright sitting just make sure you get a saddle with a wide base and springs. I'm a big fan of the Brooks B-72 but the VO saddle pictured works in a pinch.

squirtdad

Take a look at the City bike conversion thread for some good ideas......

or for an idea....nitto dirt drop stem and nitto promenade bars.

treebound 

Soma Sparrow.
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