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Virgin 531 Puch

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Virgin 531 Puch

Old 08-27-09, 10:46 AM
  #1  
pstock
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Virgin 531 Puch

I keep staring at this 531 frame Puch trying to figure out if it really has never been ridden, as appears to be the case.

https://picasaweb.google.com/TOcycles/Puch#

There is not a scratch on the frame nor fleck of dirt or grease in the drive train. (the dust you see is just loose, from storage. I should wrap it up.)

The question then I guess, should I just keep it off the road? while I have no plan to sell it, is its value significantly enhanced if it has never hit pavement? (my brother is dying to try it out.)

And does anyone know anything about this model. My sense is that Puch was like the Schwinn of Austria and made some pretty mediocre bikes. But this one has some extraordinary details and components.
Attached Images
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puch side.jpg (101.1 KB, 145 views)
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Puch chain wheels.jpg (102.5 KB, 133 views)
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Puch stickers.jpg (92.6 KB, 85 views)
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puch fork sticker.jpg (81.7 KB, 51 views)
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Puch RD.jpg (97.6 KB, 114 views)
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puch brakes.jpg (97.6 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg
puch rear D.jpg (93.8 KB, 77 views)

Last edited by pstock; 08-27-09 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 08-27-09, 11:21 AM
  #2  
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That's a 'top of the heap' bike and worth some $$$. I would say that yes, the worth of the parts will be diminished if the bike is ridden since you could probably part it out and sell the components as NOS in their current condition. There is a substantial price premium paid for brand new, never ridden (ie NOS) parts compared to parts that are functionally 'new' but show some wear. I believe the parts are the first generation (black) Dura Ace which is hard to find and quite collectible. Otherwise, if a collector was interested in the entire bike, having it in pristine, unridden condition would also add value. Collectors are often looking for something that is rare and un-ridden bikes of this caliber and vintage are certainly rare.

If you want to ride it, consider putting the current components in a box and replacing them with modern equivalents. As long as you don't ding the paint or frame you can always put them back on later or sell them off in their current state.

Last edited by Iowegian; 08-27-09 at 11:22 AM. Reason: typoess
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Old 08-27-09, 11:24 AM
  #3  
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It's a nice, clean bike with some cool features, but I wouldn't hesitate to ride it if it's well cared for. It won't decrease the value to any meaningful extent, unless you can document conclusively that it's in a currently unriden state. Just ride it on nice days and smooth roads and be sure to keep it clean (and give her a waxing first.)
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Old 08-27-09, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Iowegian
I would say that yes, the worth of the parts will be diminished if the bike is ridden since you could probably part it out and sell the components as NOS in their current condition.
Which would be inaccurate if not downright unethical, since "NOS" means literally "New Old Stock."
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Old 08-27-09, 11:32 AM
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Yes, you're probably right. NOS wouldn't be the correct term but 'never ridden' or 'unused' or 'new without box', or 'mounted but not ridden' etc would still fit the bill and is different than 'excellent condition'.
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Old 08-27-09, 11:38 AM
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I would say, after looking at the front chain ring, that it has been ridden. I always have trouble figuring
things out from photos, but it looks like wear to me.
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Old 08-27-09, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemore
I would say, after looking at the front chain ring, that it has been ridden. I always have trouble figuring
things out from photos, but it looks like wear to me.
Precisely - it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to determine whether a bicycle has ever been ridden, even once. That's why claims such as "new" and "unridden" are misleading in the absence of some kind of real evidence or documentation.
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Old 08-27-09, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemore
I would say, after looking at the front chain ring, that it has been ridden. I always have trouble figuring
things out from photos, but it looks like wear to me.
I agree it doesn't look unridden, but it's certainly in fine shape. If you really don't think you'll sell it, why not ride it? It is a bicycle, after all. btw, I'd assume that the grease is all old and well, not very greasy at this point, so the whole thing should be overhauled to make sure you aren't frying all those pristine bearings.
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Old 08-27-09, 11:54 AM
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Personally, I find it hard to just not ride a beautiful bike because of it's market value.
Unless you do have speculative purposes for it, to sell it eventually to a highest bidder, why would you not ride it? If you are planning to keep it "for good" why keep it unridden. You're just ending up saving it for the next guy and depriving yourself of fully experiencing what the bike can offer.
I love my classic bike as much as anyone out there and I try to keep it as well maintained and blemish-free and original as possible, but I try my hardest not to let that also get in the way of riding it in any way.
Classic bicycles as beautiful instruments of sport are best experienced and viewed in motion and in speed.
Take care of it but Ride It!........Please!
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Old 08-27-09, 12:50 PM
  #10  
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Ride, ride, ride and ride. Why miss the opportunity to do such a sweet thing??? Thats an unusual Puch! I would like to hear from the forums`s Puch-connessiurs!
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Old 08-27-09, 12:55 PM
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My guess is Mistral Vent Noir.
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Old 08-27-09, 01:15 PM
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My first 10 speed was a Puch when I was a teenager in the early 70's; but that thing was equipped with crappy plastic body Simplex derailluers and brakes that was always having fits. I didn't know any Puch that ever used Shimano from my memory, they mostly used Simplex and Huret, but again that's based on much faded memory.
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Old 08-27-09, 01:42 PM
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I guess one reason i'm disinclined to ride it, is because this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/TOcycles...rByHarryQuinn#

is one of my main everyday rides.
and it is a treat to ride -- even with that ding.
completely different make obviously but the components are nearly identical.

there's a fellow up here in Toronto, Mike Barry, who has quite a vintage collection. I'll take it over to show him and get his opinion.

Peter
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Old 08-27-09, 02:03 PM
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I'll get a better, closer shot next time I'm with the bike.
But, I am sure that ridden or not, the chain rings have been turned at least a few times, if only to get the chain back on.
Peter
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Old 08-27-09, 07:30 PM
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Looks just like my Vent Noir. Personally, I'd ride it. If you take good care of it, and clean it well the original parts will last for YEARS. You could always buy replacement original parts on eBay, and clean it all up with new parts, and hang it on the wall.
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Old 08-27-09, 07:44 PM
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That's a mint Vent Noir (Black Wind), and it appears to be the second model - II. That is a very valuable and sought-after machine. You could upgrade it to modern components, but it looks fine to ride as is. Perhaps some new tires & tubes would be in order, or are those sew-ups?

Whether it's been ridden before is really a moot point. It's in outstanding condition (not outstanding in the rain of a backyard somewhere) and is simply beautiful!

Take a close look at the dropouts and see what they say. I'm guessing Shimano.
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Old 08-27-09, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pstock
there's a fellow up here in Toronto, Mike Barry, who has quite a vintage collection. I'll take it over to show him and get his opinion.
Why didn't you do so in the first place, then?

-Kurt
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Old 08-27-09, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pstock

there's a fellow up here in Toronto, Mike Barry, who has quite a vintage collection. I'll take it over to show him and get his opinion.

Peter
Most folks here would recognize Mike Barry as the builder of Mariposa bicycles.
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Old 08-27-09, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pstock
I guess one reason i'm disinclined to ride it, is because this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/TOcycles...rByHarryQuinn#

is one of my main everyday rides.
and it is a treat to ride -- even with that ding.
completely different make obviously but the components are nearly identical.

there's a fellow up here in Toronto, Mike Barry, who has quite a vintage collection. I'll take it over to show him and get his opinion.

Peter
Originally Posted by cudak888
Why didn't you do so in the first place, then?

-Kurt

People shouldn't post photos of their bikes on here for other's thoughts, insights and opinions anymore?
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Old 08-27-09, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ohjonnybegoode
People shouldn't post photos of their bikes on here for other's thoughts, insights and opinions anymore?
No, I just thought it a bit insulting that the OP is suggesting that the replies here on BF are not good enough.

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Old 08-27-09, 09:06 PM
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I had an AD inter 10 for a short while, similar full 531 tubes, but not as fancily equipped...It was just a tad small or I would have held onto it, it had a really strong ride...

I love the early black anodized Dura Ace stuff...

Would love to get my hands on something similar to what you have here or one of the charcoal metallic ones, great bikes, I say ride it for sure.
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Old 08-27-09, 11:26 PM
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Beautiful bike....first generation Vent Noir, probably 1976 vintage or so, probably not the U.S. market version given the Steyr-Daimler-Puch label...the U.S. market version was labeled Austro-Daimler Vent Noir.

There are some mid-late 1970's Austro-Daimler catalogs posted on the web with photos/specs for the A-D Vent Noir.

I wouldn't hesitate to ride it.
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Old 08-28-09, 08:33 AM
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I would ride it, for the same reason I would ride a brand new 2009 model bike. That is what they were made for.

If the bike is worth big bucks then it is probably worth about as much as a similar new bike today...

I know some people do keep museum pieces, and if they let people see them, that is great, but I look at bikes to be ridden.
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Old 08-28-09, 08:43 AM
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I didn't mean to suggest anything of the sort (that BF replies were not good enough.)
I have great respect for the vast and deep knowledge base out here.
There is only so much my amateur photos can show however and they are nothing like seeing the beast in the flesh. Since Mike Barry is both local and expert, I wanted to drag it over to show him eventually.

I just haven't been able to hook up with him yet.
I emailed Mike the pictures and he said he'd like to have a look at it. that was when I learned of his monthly No Click Club meetings.
Apparently the NCC is a bunch of Toronto-area cyclists and aficionados of vintage bike which have only friction shifters and cage pedals (no automatic anything.)
The meetings seem to have gone a bit off schedule over the summer and so I plan to attend the September session with the Puch and get their feedback.

Last edited by pstock; 08-28-09 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 08-28-09, 08:50 AM
  #25  
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Those are indeed sewups.
I'll check the drop outs when I am next at the garage,
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