RFC

Today I picked up the frame, fork, Campy FD, broken Campy RD, Falcon stem shifters (?), some other junk, and two Alexrim wheels with an 8-speed cassette for $163.

So, now the question is what is the frame?

I'm guessing it was set up with stem shifters?

What is that arrow thing on the seat tube?

And what is that bolt thing in the bottom bracket?

Thanks in advance for your erudite and learned opinions.

RFC

melonbar123

The arrow thing on the seat tube is used to hold a frame pump.

RFC

More pics:

Picchio Special

It's not a Hetchins frame. There are clear Hetchins elements present, though, so someone mimicking the Hetchins style for sure. I have seen at least one other similar frame - another Hetchins "tribute" as it were, where the lug design and execution was simply not up to Hetchins standards. You may never figure out who built it - I certainly don't know. It is cool in a homemade but well-intentioned sort of way.

kpug505

The thingy in the bottom bracket is a home made tool for removing a stuck cup...Have fun with that!

Citoyen du Monde

Looks like a paper weight to me...

JAG410

The guy you bought it from is a half assed, shady bike flipper. I've seen a number of his posts on craigslist and I shake my head everytime. Not a trustworthy person, so whatever he told you about the bike is probably wrong.

love2pedal.com

I am not sure about this but it looks like the derailleur hanger was yanked back, opening up the dropout. Maybe the rr derailleur was hooked into the spokes and jerked back.

Oldpeddaller

+1. Some nice features though, but a fair bit of work ahead IMHO.

The drop-out looks stretched on the right and combined with the scarring on the head tube gives concerns that the thing may have been heavily crashed so it would be a good idea to check the alignment first. Either that or it's been maintained by a Neanderthal with more strength than knowledge!

The "arrow thing" is definitely a frame pump clip, so no problem there. The bolt in the BB cup is an attempt to remove the cup using the Sheldon Brown method - and from the curved scratch on the cup plus the fact the cup is still there, it clearly didn't work. You'll probably need a deep thin-walled socket or box spanner to remove a nut from inside the cup, then examine the inside of the cup with a torch to determine if you need to remove it. If so, try Sheldon's method with a new bolt, washers and nuts of the right size. If that doesn't work you may need to cautiously cut and grind it out, making sure you don't damage the threads. It took me three evenings of painstaking toil to do this on one of my frames, but it was worth it.

I don't know if you are going to paint it or have the head tube scarring filled and replated, either way it's a real shame but not beyond retrieval. I'd also try a seat post in the clamp as it might just be the photo but the clamp area doesn't look very round to me - a bit of judicious tapping using a domed drift might be needed here. Patience is the main requirement for this - I'm in the process of reshaping the seat tube socket on an old Tange Saracen MTB frame at the moment and it's a simple but painstaking process.

Not a straightforward build then, but personally I'd consider this a worthwhile project as I just love the look of that frame!

RFC

Oh yah, the guy is real shady, but to his credit, he didn't represent it as anything. This was a calculated risk and if the frame turns out to be nothing, then no great loss. If so, I may flip it or turn it into a SS for one of my kids. Not much invested here.

And actually, up close it is a very nice frame.

Oldpeddaller

Looking at the photos again iy looks as though the letter "W" is stamped on the sides of the head lugs - does this give any clue to this frame's true parentage?

USAZorro

If it were a Hetchins, there would be a serial number stamped in the rear dropout, and it would fit the schema you can find at www.hetchins.org

Also, the lugs are quite different from what I recall seeing. I wouldn't necessarily say inferior, but certainly in a rather different sensibility. You took a bit of a gamble there, and it may still be more than worth it, but it seems quite clear what you have is not a Hetchins.

p.s. - is that a crack, void, or trick of the light at the juncture of the right rear dropout and the seat stay?

luker

no, up close the lug work is clearly inferior to hetchin's, although not bad overall. The frame is pretty surely a one-off, and would make an interesting addition to a collection, or maybe a really really nice fixie. Two things - what the heck happened to the derailleur hanger; and why the hole in the drive side chainstay?

Oh, and the RW is not punched in, but cut into the lugs before assembly, seems to me. the opus work of roger wabbit?

anomaly

For that price I would have bought it as well. The dropout should be easily repaired. Track down a shop with a VAR/Hozan fixed cup removal tool and they should be able to get the cup out...though they might need a long breaker bar to get it. I have one and would be willing to send it to you if you paid round trip shipping + a security deposit on it.

What size seat post does it take? English or Italian BB?

Ronsonic 

I'll tell you what, turn that into a fixie and it looks enough like a Hetchins you'll make bike geeks implode for miles around. Then sell it to some hipster for 1200 of his parent's dollars.

kpug505

Fixie, fixie, fixie...It has vertical dropouts people. Not the best candidate IMO unless you wanna spend the gigabucks on an Eno eccentric BB or rear hub...

CardiacKid

I understand that there were a lot of counterfeit Hetchins out there at one time. If you can find the serial number and it is in the format listed on Hetchins.org, you can confirm its legitimacy through the Hetchins Register, which is discussed on the website. However, I would almost bet my 1974 Hetchins Italia that your bike isn't a Hetchins. The serial number should also be on the steerer tube.

BlankCrows

And the letter at the other end of the head tube looks like an "R".

Any known builders with R & W initials?

RFC

OK, I checked and no serial #. But that's not so bad. After my initial disappointment, I realized that I got my value out of the deal. Whatever the source, the frame is nicely made with a lot of attention to detail, even if not at the Hetchins level. So, worst case, I hang it on my garage wall until I think of something interesting to do with it.

Thanks for all of the help.

sjpitts 

Whatever it is, I think it is cool.

The bike mechanic at the Paradise Valley REI has one of these

https://www.hozan.co.jp/cycle_e/catal...edal/C-358.htm

from watching him use it sure seems like it could take off just about any fixed cup.

Jared

/maybe everyone has one of those, but I hadn't seen one before.

RFC

BTW, while examining the faux Hetchins today, I noticed that at those few spots where the chrome was worn I could see copper plating. Was it common to plate bike frames first with copper and then chrome?

Randy T

Yes, copper is usually used as a base plating before chrome.

Picchio Special

Maybe you'll believe us now that the CR list told you the same thing.

RFC

The search has been great fun and even the experts have been stumped on identity.

Picchio Special

The experts have not been able to identify the frame because the overwhelming likelihood is it's by a no-name guy of no real distinction or talent.