Sturmey Archer Question
 

Hello,
I recently got a mid 70s Schwinn Speedster from a local bike collector on craigslist, for college use. I love riding it so far. I have run into one small problem however. When I shift to the second gear, or occasionally the 3rd gear, I freewheel, until I switch gears again. This most often occurs as I go from 3rd gear to 2nd, but it also occurs from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd sometimes. I understand that usually this problem is usually due to the indicator spindle not being adjusted correctly. However, to my untrained eye, it seems normal. The spindle is fairly taut on first gear, and loose on 3rd gear. I don't have too much experience with Sturmey-Archer hubs, so I might be misjudging the tightness. Are there any other possibilities I can try?
Thanks!

P.S. It's a sturmey-archer aw from 1974.

Oil?

using sheldon brown's method of adjusting the indicator spindle isn't considered the "best" method by some for arriving at an optimal indicator adjustment. i would try using sturmey-archer's official method: with the shifter in 2nd gear, the flat shoulder of the spindle (where the solid spindle section becomes the first chain link) should be flush with the edge of axle. this method assumes that you have the correct indicator for your hub. at some point in time it could have been swapped out with a different length indicator, in which case this method will not work.

using S-A's method with the spindle shoulder flush with the end of the axle, you should see the following when in other gears:

- spindle should be pulled out all but about 1 mm in 1st gear
- spindle should be all the way in with some cable slack in 3rd gear

I checked the spindle, and it must be a different one than the original one. The chain goes inside the edge of the axle.

Unscrew it a turn, with the shift lever in 3rd gear.

Also make sure the rod isn't screwed all the way in, back it out a half a turn or so.

All of the above. It is a simple adjustment issue. Once you get it, you'll get it. ;)

I'll keep playing around with it then until I get it right. The rod was screwed in almost too tight, so I made sure to loosen that up. Now if the adjustment is not yet correct, will I do any damage by test riding it, to see how close I am to getting the right adjustment?

Make sure the cable is moving freely, I have one on a Twenty that hangs up occasionally giving me that freewheelin' feelin' when I hit 3rd gear. Some hubs are a bit more finicky than others on the adjustment, but once you get it dialed in you should be good to go.

Aaron:)

No, test ride it!

I've had some that I had to back off the tension so far I didn't think it would work, and lo and behold, that was the trick!

Oil everything, the thumb shifter, the cable and the little wheel that it goes around. Then monkey with it till it goes. They're pretty hard to brake.
I also like to take off the sleeve thing that attaches the cable to the chain and put some oil in there and make sure it's letting the cable rotate freely and not twisting the heck out of it while you're making these adjustments.

Some salmon pads will help that, they are hard to break, though.

:rolleyes:

I just installed a new S-A AW 3-spd hub.

Screw the indicator-rod all the way in. Now back it off 1/2 turn. In 3rd gear, attach the cable so it's snug. Not floppy - snug. Now shift it into 2nd gear on the shifter. Look into the hole in the axle-end nut. You should see the indicator-rod is in about half the window, and the chain from the rod in the other half. Lift the bike and shift it to make sure you now have 3 gears. Snug down the nut to keep the knurled barrel-adjuster in place and take a test-spin.

Its really easy.Start in second gear.The indicator rod has to be adjusted so it is even with the end of the axle.Snug down the adjuster ,oil it and go.If you need I can send you a pic of the instructions.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...8/raleigh3.jpg

Now I know why it's called an indicator chain, after all these years. I never knew you could adjust an AW hub by eye. I always do it by feel.

The "neutral" gear is between 2nd and 3rd gears. If you get it when the shifter is in 2nd gear, it means your cable is too loose. If you get it in 3rd gear, it means your cable is too tight.

+1 on all the advice. One of those methods is sure to work. Until you're quite sure you've got it right, don't stand up to pedal.

+1 especially on oiling everything. If your bike hasn't been ridden in a while, some of the pawls may be sticky; fresh oil will loosen them up eventually, but this may take a while. If you put in too much oil, it will leak out and get on the rim etc but otherwise do no harm. I'd say go for it, put fresh oil in the hub and trigger even if it shouldn't need any, and clean it up as necessary. Once the hub is loosened up, you won't need to oil it so much. Note, I've done this successfully with a couple hubs from the late 40's, and it worked great. I had less luck with a '69 hub, but I figure that was 'cuz I didn't have it long enough.

One more thing: check to see that you trigger cable is as straight as possible. If it has a kink anywhere, the spring in the hub may not be strong enough to pull the hub into 3rd gear, in which case you will stay in neutral even if the hub is correctly adjusted. If you find a kink, try to straighten it by hand or (gently) with tools; you can always replace the cable, but so far I have not had to resort to such extreme measures to fix this problem.

Spelling may be your strong point; grammar, not...

aren't these forums great??!! yep, the "official" adjustment method is by sight... i actually started using S-A's method after using sheldon's for years. when i use S-A's method, the adjustment seems to be more spot-on. with sheldon's method, i would still encounter the occasional free-wheel problem.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.hadland.me.uk/aw.pdf

hell, I can't read or rite reel gud. Book learnin' is for socialist elitists.

Thanks for all the advice. Just one more question. Yesterday when I was riding around, before I discovered it freewheeling, I stood up to pedal up some hills around campus. What are the chances that I inadverdently caused harm to my bike?

Chances of hurting the bike? practically nil. The reason I advise against standing up to pedal is that if the hub slips into neutral unexpectedly, you could seriously hurt yourself. If it didn't happen, no problem!

The way the usual AW engages is that a cross-shaped clutch pushes against a group of 4 (I think it's 4) small pins. It is difficult, though not impossible to completely break the pins or else "round off" the clutch so that it no longer properly engages. This is the least likely scenario by far. The clutches do wear, though it is highly unlikely you'd have something so worn that it fails to engage at all.

The most likely issue is an adjustment issue. There is a "neutral" setting that should come into play between 2 and 3 on the trigger, if your hub is properly adjusted. A quick and dirty method for bikes with replacement indicator spindles or with significant wear such that the instruction method doesn't work is to adjust the spindle until the "neutral" is right in between 2 and 3 on your trigger. Then you would make fine adjustments based on the riding quality or any tendency to slip into the wrong gear while riding. It is not as precise as the instruction method, but in a pinch with a bike that has some wear or parts replacement issues going on, it is quite helpful.

Another issue can be a cog sizing issue. Certain replacement cogs cause the amount of pedal "free spin until engage" to go up. I think it's the larger ones that do this, though I'm not 100% sure (haven't done a cog swap in a couple years).

Speed can also play a role. If you're downshifting but still moving quickly enough it will seem as if you just can't catch up to the hub to engage simply because you're dropping down a gear at speed.


Standing should not damage it. But if you find the gearing to be too high, you could indeed do a rear cog swap up to like a 20 or a 22 to give some help. I swapped up (I don't recall if they're 20s or 22s now) on my Raleighs and think it was a great move. The climbs are easier, and on the big downhills I coast anyway. On the flat, a swap also brings 3 much more into play than stock.

increasing the cog size on the hub will increase the amount of pedal free spin before engagement (don't know how else to call that) by a direct proportion to the ratio of teeth (new cog/old cog). thus, increasing the cog size from 18T (by far the most common standard size) to 22T will increase the pedal free play until engagement by 22%, as well as lower the overall gearing by 22%.

since i live in a town with a lot of hills (and i live atop one of them), i replaced all the cogs on my sturmey archer 3-speeds to 22T. it helps a LOT on the hills, but at the expense of not having a tall 3rd gear. that's fine with me, since i only use these bikes to tool around town on errands.

just be careful with standing up to pedal on a sturmey-archer 3-speed. if your hub is prone to freewheeling and you find yourself standing on the pedals as it goes into freewheel, it could launch you over the bars!

as a side note, even if your hub is in PERFECT adjustment, the sturmey AW is still capable of going into freewheel upon sustained, hard pedaling. it's simply a design flaw that's been well detailed by many people but never admitted by S-A. that's why i avoid standing up to pedal an AW hub.

Oh, gawd...you would have to bring back that memory of standing up to climb a hill, going into freewheel unexpectedly and landing on the top tube!!! I was 12 years old - 58 now - and that memory is STILL vivid. :cry: