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New Steel

Old 10-07-09, 12:06 AM
  #1  
cyclotoine
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New Steel

I promise to post picks of my ride tomorrow, but here is a thread I have been thinking about for a long time.

It's a place to post and discuss new steel racing bicycles. That pretty much means 1995 or newer. I started this thread because I don't see a lot of these bikes for sale. I know that after more or less disappearing from the bigger brands 5 years ago they are back (paramount, cinelli etc..).

I am having a hard time finding them for sale on the net. Currently I am ridding a 2000 Marin Treviso, columbus Nemo with a 1" easton sc90sl fork. I have the bike down to 17.5lbs and will save a bit of weight when I install a titanium seatpost on place of the thompson elite. I haven't gone too crazy... no carbon other than the fork, but I would love to have something like ultrafoco with a 1-1/8" steer tube... so what are you riding? In any case, even this blows me away compared the old lugged skinny round tube, but at 59-62cm frame sizes I think the difference is probably more significant than at the smaller end. This bike accelerate better, climbs better and is more sure footed descending, I love this bike and it has allowed to me to "keep the faith" knowing steel can be nearly as light and provide as good or a better ride than any of the other materials, plus it's by far the most environmentally friendly material of the big 4.

Some bikes I am on the look out for.

2001 Marin Treviso (went to foco and 1 1/8" stear!)
2004 Cervelo Super Prodigy
What else is out there?

pics soon, I promise.
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Last edited by cyclotoine; 10-07-09 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 10-07-09, 12:31 AM
  #2  
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Doesn't mostly everyone from Cinelli to Waterford build a steel frame that can be raced on?

Spirit or 953 steel with super-light wheels and components, and before you know it, you're dangerously close to the UCI weight minimum.

Anyway, the frames of late that I really like are Serotta and Waterford, Bayliss and Sachs for custom work, and more mainstream vintage (Italian) DeBernardi, Ciocc, Colnago. Grandis and Bilatto might still make frames. They were the bomb back in the 80s and 90s.

IMO, if a frame has a 130mm rear triangle, that signifies modern. Steel weight isn't as important as wheel or component weight.

The Japanese at one time made outstanding lugged steel frames - Miyata comes to mind - but I'm not sure if they're still around.
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Old 10-07-09, 12:33 AM
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Many of the LeMond bikes were steel.
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Old 10-07-09, 12:37 AM
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Cervelo Renaissance.

Bianch Penella

Bianchi XL and EV Boron.

Pegorotti not sure if that really counts though as they are custom a lot of times.

Cinelli XCr Stainless


Willer Gioiello Ramato. Doesn't seem as much a race frame as the Cinelli and Bianchi but it looks so damn cool. I wish it had a quill though.




Early 2000s Specialized Allez Elite.

I am out of ideas

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Old 10-07-09, 12:49 AM
  #5  
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My 2008 Lemond Sarthe, True Temper OX, mix of Ultegra and 105. Stock set up with 105 triple, weighs in at 20.5 lbs.

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Old 10-07-09, 06:21 AM
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I agre a steel bike can be had it is just a matter of price. in the used market most of the bikes are likely to be aluminimum or carbon as that is what the industry is pushing.
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Old 10-07-09, 06:33 AM
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I have a 1997 Bianchi Trofeo. It was my primary ride until I got my Gitane's. It's a solid, lugged steel frame.

Shimano headset and bottom bracket, Campy Mirage 8 spd ergo brifters, EXA-drive cassette, Campy Avanit brakes and derailleurs and Campy Athena 53-39 crankset. The rear wheel is a Mavic Open Sport and the front the original Campy Melbourne. It's a little heavier than expected and the wheels would make a big difference - but I love the way the bike rides.
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Old 10-07-09, 07:37 AM
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Since the cycling federation placed a minimum weight on bikes for pros in order to keep the competition focused on the human element and rightly so there is no reason that at some point, even if using carbon or titanium alloy or "other" materiel for components, that a steel bicycle could not be built to that weight minimum. When that day happens will there be a large shift back to steel? Once you set a target, the engineers then know where to go. Carbon fiber get's you there easy enough but I would not rule out a future steel bike pushing that limit especially if it has carbon, ceramic alloy or other materials for forks and basic components.

Torelli Corsa Strada looks nice for a good build and does Masi list a steel frame? When you get a Masi or Pinarello or Torelli etc you know you are getting a certain type of traditional bike that has a very specific "Italian" feel to it. When you get a Waterford and similar custom, no mater how nice they may be, what is it? What does it want to be? There is the new Specialized Allez also, looks fine to me.

The gene pool today has become very limited, so many small shops especially in Europe are gone that introduced innovation and originality, now we just have giant box factory builders like Trek that spend tons on adv copy to promote non enviro friendly offshore manufacturing.

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Old 10-07-09, 08:25 AM
  #9  
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Here's mine:

2002 Bianchi Vigorelli. The model was phased out in 2007-8, when it looked like Bianchi was going to fully embrace the carbon revolution.

But it's back with a top tube approaching horizontal:

https://www.bianchiusa.com/09-bicycle...vigorelli.html

Specs have remained similar: Reynolds 631 main frame (525 or 520 on the stays), Ultegra level components. Used to be spec'd with Mavic wheels, now with Shimano (WH-R500). Retail price has also stayed within the same $1500-1700 range.

Based on Bianchi's very quick return to steel, my guess is that there will be quite a few production frames to choose from in the coming years.

A question for cyclotoine: are you in the market for new steel, or just looking to track the overall steel trend post-1995?

Last edited by kbjack; 10-07-09 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 10-07-09, 08:31 AM
  #10  
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If carbon stays count - Mercian Velocita. Otherwise any Mercian built with racing geometry (they'll build any geometry you want) and 853 tubing......
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Old 10-07-09, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
Since the cycling federation placed a minimum weight on bikes for pros in order to keep the competition focused on the human element and rightly so there is no reason that at some point, even if using carbon or titanium alloy or "other" materiel for components, that a steel bicycle could not be built to that weight minimum. When that day happens will there be a large shift back to steel? Once you set a target, the engineers then know where to go. Carbon fiber get's you there easy enough but I would not rule out a future steel bike pushing that limit especially if it has carbon, ceramic alloy or other materials for forks and basic components.
Maybe, the catch is that the bike manufacturers don't use that as a target - they look to get under it. For two reasons. One, there is a market for bikes under the UCI weight limit for recreational and non-UCI use. If we just look at UCI racing the farther you get under the weight limit the more room you have for adding extra stuff (e.g. powermeters, GPS computers, etc.) without adding weight to the bike. Or by taking weight away from the rest of the bike they can add material around the BB to stiffen it. Or allowing deep-section rims to be run without weight penalty.

Formula 1 racing is a dramatic and very clear example - simply building your car to the minimum weight doesn't even come close to cutting it. Just hit the minimum weight and you'll lose. Get 20kg under and it helps, but you're still at a disadvantage. The winning teams are generally 50+kg under. They make it up by using super-dense materials (at one point they were using depleted uranium but it was outlawed) strategically placed to move the CG as low as possible as well as moving the CG of the car forward and back depending on the characteristics of the track. I always look to motorsport for examples in things like this because I find it clearer because the power output of a car or motorcycle motor doesn't vary as dramatically as a bicycle motor.....don't know if it helps y'all or not......
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Old 10-07-09, 09:53 AM
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You know, I picked up a Univega Modo Vinvere as a winter bike last year, and I'm really, really impressed with the ride. It's got Columbus Thron tubes and a chromo fork. It may have something to do with the size (60cm) as cyclotoine suggests, but it just feels a lot more responsive, stiffer, and climbs better than some of the other older steel I have. Of course, I've not ridden many older high end steel frames, and I give high marks to my 62cm Centurion Cinelli with Columbus SL/SP, though power transfer when standing up hills feels a little better on the Univega.

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Old 10-07-09, 10:10 AM
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What's the new minimum weight for bikes?

I agree, now that there is a minimum, the steel makers will figure out how to reach it or approach it. Eventually, it might be cheaper than carbon. Then again, it's hard to beat aluminum for low cost, when you're mass producing.
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Old 10-07-09, 10:18 AM
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I must admit the WIllier is looking very nice .
Cheers
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Old 10-07-09, 10:23 AM
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Nice kbjack. That's what I'm talking about. I know high end steel can be had from a lot of manufactures today but I'm talking about when steel was still in the peleton. Some companies were pushing models at the higher end before they dropped them, a lot of them are back, and most have a super expensive one off frame. For example I picked my "new steel" bike for $300 complete with chorus 10 speed group. There should be bikes out there that are getting on in age now that are not being ridden that we cheepos can pick up. I guess people just haven't decided to clear them out yet. When I got my bike it was a hefty 22.5lbs or so, but the components are what makes all the difference.

My dream bike is the XCR with a non-existent BB30 180mm crank. But that scapin is pretty sweet looking! Going to look into that when this post is done.

I have no doubt that the Cinelli can be built up under the UCI weight limit (15lbs right?). I know a fellow in down who has a colnago master x-lite at 15.3lbs and there are areas he could shave those last few grams to put it right down on the limit like putting sram red in place of the old record 10 speed and going to zipp 202s instead of the 303s etc...

But lets keep em coming... more pics of your own rides!
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Last edited by cyclotoine; 10-07-09 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 10-07-09, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
For example I picked my "new steel" bike for $300 complete with chorus 10 speed group.
And that's CDN, right? What a steal!



Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
I have no doubt that the Cinelli can be built up under the UCI weight limit (15lbs right?). I know a fellow in down who has a colnago master x-lite at 15.3lbs and there are areas he could shave those last few grams to put it right down on the limit like putting sram red in place of the old record 10 speed and going to zipp 202s instead of the 303s etc...
I see working at a professional shop has altered your perceptions some! Are you racing now?
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Old 10-07-09, 10:37 AM
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+1 on the Mercian suggestions.
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Old 10-07-09, 11:07 AM
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Dave Bohm has built a bike for interbike this year that is sitting at 13.5lbs and could easily go lower. Ok well maybe not that easy after looking at it again.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/insightd/3949832744/


More here: https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=549606

OK, I am going to stop posting now as I have no steel bike of my own to speak of right now. I would love a nice Univega though.
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Old 10-07-09, 11:13 AM
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Can it be counted as a "racing bicycle" if it has DT shifters?

If so, the Allez double steel is the deal of the century at $610
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Old 10-07-09, 11:43 AM
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I don't know, but that Cinelli is probably Aluminum.
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Old 10-07-09, 11:45 AM
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Nawww, Themacrom was most definitely a steel alloy.
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Old 10-07-09, 11:50 AM
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I just saw the decal. That's a crazy design for steel.
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Old 10-07-09, 11:52 AM
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Yeah, those chainstays are INSANE.
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Old 10-07-09, 11:56 AM
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I was waiting for that bike Caterham, I never get sick of that one. Looks like it has integrated headset too, very VERY nice bike. What does that baby tip the scales at?

Here is mine, I gave it a quick clean but it was pretty dirty so I didn't get it all. In fact, I was very disgruntled to find that some of the road crap that stuck to my rear caliper ate through the anodizing and left some pitting on the arm! Ah well, it was super cheap OEM blow out stuff from 2007 year. This is a functional ride anyway not a show machine







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Old 10-07-09, 12:48 PM
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I had this nice Schwinn Peloton made from Reynolds 853 steel and it was a fantastic ride. I believe these were made up until 2002 but I could be wrong. I wish I had better photos, the quality of the welds was excellent.





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